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Old 11 Aug 2011, 02:17 AM   #1
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Default Blanking menu cells

A video with a single LU contains menus in 5 languages, each in a separate cell in the respective PGC. If the unwanted language cells are blanked in PgcEdit (pressing the VoB/Cell ID in the PGC Editor), are the menu buttons deleted (as I suspect) or hidden?
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Old 12 Aug 2011, 02:45 AM   #2
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If you blank out a menu cell with buttons, the buttons are lost, as they are in the cell.

You should use Kill PGC Playback instead, so that you can select the "default button" to simulate, if per change that PGC gets called.

Another way to regain some disc space without risk to break the navigation is to remap the cell to another cell with the same content but in a language you want to keep. So, if the PGC is called, it will show the menu in a wrong language, but at least, it will be possible to use it. And the original cell being now unreferenced, you can easily remove it with FixVTS.
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Last edited by r0lZ; 12 Aug 2011 at 02:49 AM
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Old 16 Aug 2011, 12:13 AM   #3
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Many thanks for the confirmation.
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Old 31 Aug 2011, 06:57 PM   #4
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I would like to come back to this subject. If the buttons are lost when the PGC is killed, is there not a risk of the “numbering problem” occurring ?

Occasionally I come across cases where a PGC in the Titles domain contains neither video nor (pre-, post- or cell) commands). I suppose these are relics of previous editing, but should be left intact unless the IFO file is rebuilt.
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Old 31 Aug 2011, 07:54 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VRYK View Post
I would like to come back to this subject. If the buttons are lost when the PGC is killed, is there not a risk of the “numbering problem” occurring ?
I suppose you refer to the problem of the buttons numbers when a particular button is deleted. Right?

If you kill the playback of a menu PGC properly, the menu disappears completely. There are no buttons any more, so you cannot have the numbering problem.

Note also that PgcEdit inserts a SetHL_BTN command when the menu is killed, to simulate the fact that the button you have selected when blanking the menu has been activated. That way, the content of SPRM 8 (highlighted button number) contains the number of the button (that doesn't exist any more), and if the nav commands check later its value, the navigation will behave exactly like with the original DVD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VRYK View Post
Occasionally I come across cases where a PGC in the Titles domain contains neither video nor (pre-, post- or cell) commands). I suppose these are relics of previous editing, but should be left intact unless the IFO file is rebuilt.
Hum, strange. Normally, a Title must have video content. So, if a Title is sequential (and has therefore only one PGC for that title and TTN number), it MUST have at least a single tiny black cell. (This is why you cannot convert a title to a dummy when you kill it. That possibility exists only for menu PGCs.)
If the title is not sequential and has several PGCs (with the same TTN number), then at least one PGC must have video content. The other PGCs of the same Title/TTN can be dummies.

In PgcEdit's terminology, a PGC without any command, video content, and without a NextPGCN link value (greater than 0) is called a "void PGC". Such PGCs are useless, as if the navigation reaches them, it's a dead end. There is no way to know where to jump after the void PGC, and the DVD will be completely stopped (although some players may decide to play, for example, the next title).

Note that the presence of a non-zero NextPGCN link is sufficient to make the PGC non void: when the PGC is played, the navigation will jump to the PGC pointed to by the link. (It's exactly like having a LinkPGCN in the post commands.)

PgcEdit has a function to detect the jumps to the void PGCs (in the Info menu). If there are jumps to void PGCs in the DVD, that means usually that there is an authoring error somewhere (although in some rare cases, a jump to a void PGC can be intentional, for example to stop the DVD if the user has not entered the parental management code correctly).

You can use DVD -> Clear Jumps to Void PGCs to remove the commands jumping to the void PGCs, and make them unreferenced. After that, Delete Uncalled PGCs will remove the void PGCs. (Or use Remove Useless Stuff, that calls these functions.)

There are many commercial DVDs with a similar structure in all VTSM menus (except in the VTSM containing the main menu): PGC 1 is the Root Menu, and then there are 3 or 4 void PGCs. The void PGCs are called by conditional LinkPGCN commands in the Root Menu, but that commands can safely be removed, as they cannot be executed due to the conditions being always false. Obviously, the link commands and the void PGCs are remnants of the authoring program, probably to handle additional Chapter, Audio, Subpic or Angle menus, usually not defined by the author. But note that although this situation is frequent in menus, I have never seen a similar authoring in Title domains.

Can you verify if a void PGC in Title domain can be created by PgcEdit? If it's the case, can you confirm that the PGC is a sequential title? In that case, I will have to fix an important bug!

Last edited by r0lZ; 31 Aug 2011 at 07:59 PM
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Old 5 Sep 2011, 10:59 PM   #6
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Thank you very much for your very detailed explanations.

Yes, I was referring to the button numbering problem. I had believed that ALL buttons in the entire DVD were numbered from 1 to whatever and were referred to as such in the IFO file. However, from your reply I am I correct that each PGC has its (independent) numbering.

>Can you verify if a void PGC in Title domain can be created by PgcEdit? If it's the case, can you confirm that the PGC is a sequential title? In that case, I will have to fix an important bug!<

I’m sorry about responding so late to your request for confirmation. In the light of your reply, I suspect that the case I referred to concerns a tiny black cell. As soon as I can retrieve this video (which is “buried” somewhere on my HD), I shall get back. In the meantime, I would be grateful if you could help me on the following:

A video repeats the credits at the end of each episode. After cutting these credits, the return to the main menu is too abrupt. While a new cell can be appended in PGCEdit’s PGC Editor, is it possible to specify the Playback time – in this case around 4 seconds.
In the same vein, Discs 2 and 3 of a video set are of identical structure. After the main film, Disc 2 returns to the main menu after 3 or 4 seconds, whereas Disc 3 returns after precisely 1 minute. I am puzzled about why there is such a difference (I would like to reduce the return time for Disc 2 to the same 3 or 4 seconds).
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Old 6 Sep 2011, 12:16 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VRYK View Post
Yes, I was referring to the button numbering problem. I had believed that ALL buttons in the entire DVD were numbered from 1 to whatever and were referred to as such in the IFO file. However, from your reply I am I correct that each PGC has its (independent) numbering.
Almost right. In fact, each cell within the PGC has its independent numbering. Often, there is only one cell with buttons in a menu PGC, but it's not always the case. (You can select the cell to view or edit with the large button at the top of the menu viewer.)

The SetHL_BTN command instructs the player to pre-select a specific button the next time a cell with button will be played (unless the option to force another button has been set in the cell).

Quote:
Originally Posted by VRYK View Post
A video repeats the credits at the end of each episode. After cutting these credits, the return to the main menu is too abrupt. While a new cell can be appended in PGCEdit’s PGC Editor, is it possible to specify the Playback time – in this case around 4 seconds.
You can change the "cell still time" of the last cell of the PGC. Open the PGC editor, and in the cells list, change the value of the last cell in the column "Cell Still Time" to the number of seconds you want to pause the video, between 0 (no pause) to 244 seconds. The last frame of the cell will de displayed for that amount of seconds. Do NOT use 255, as that means "infinite pause" and that should be used only in still menus.
(Do not change the global "PGC Still Time" in the upper left corner. It is much more difficult to use that feature.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by VRYK View Post
In the same vein, Discs 2 and 3 of a video set are of identical structure. After the main film, Disc 2 returns to the main menu after 3 or 4 seconds, whereas Disc 3 returns after precisely 1 minute. I am puzzled about why there is such a difference (I would like to reduce the return time for Disc 2 to the same 3 or 4 seconds).
One minute of black? Right? That's strange!
Verify if there is a cell still time around 60 seconds at the end of the movie. If you cannot find it, perhaps there is something else. Verify also if the PGC has a global PGC Still Time, and if it's the case, remove it. (There is also a possibility to add pauses in the VOB files, but I have never seen a commercial DVD using that feature. Anyway, you cannot change the VOBU pauses with PgcEdit.) Finally, use the trace to verify if something else is played after the movie and before the menu. If it's the case, you may want to Kill its playback.

Last edited by r0lZ; 6 Sep 2011 at 12:22 AM
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Old 10 Sep 2011, 07:05 AM   #8
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Many thanks for your reply. Setting the Cell Still Time to 2 seconds produced a satisfactory transition.

>One minute of black? Right?<
Yes, one minute of black. Nothing plays between the end of the movie and the return to the menu. It doesn’t seem to be a question of player – both VLC and Windows Media Player produce the same result. Where can the existence of a global PGC still time be checked ? The playing time (including the 1 minute “blackout”) corresponds to the cumulative End Time in the PGC Editor. The final cell which seems to be a tiny black cell has 0 Cell Still Time. The second-last cell’s playtime is clearly the longest of the PGC’s 7 cells. Could a cell’s video play time be “overestimated”, thereby leaving a blackout at its end ? If this were the case, I suppose there’s nothing that could be done about it.
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Old 10 Sep 2011, 04:29 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VRYK View Post
Where can the existence of a global PGC still time be checked ?
I told you: in the upper left corner of the PGC Editor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VRYK View Post
Could a cell’s video play time be “overestimated”, thereby leaving a blackout at its end ? If this were the case, I suppose there’s nothing that could be done about it.
Try Title -> Rebuild Time Map of Current PGC. That function checks the time codes in the VOBs (and assume they are correct) to rebuild the time map. In addition, it checks also if the cells durations are correct in the cell table. But I'm almost sure that will not suppress the long pause. Even if the duration of the cell is shorter in the VOBs than in the PGC, the player should take the VOB into account anyway. (When there is nothing more to play in the VOB, it has to stop, and without still times, it should continue the navigation normally.)

Perhaps there is really one minute of black at the end of the second to last cell. If it's the case, you can cut that cell with VobBlanker.
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Old 12 Sep 2011, 11:45 PM   #10
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Thank you for the suggestions. Checking out the PGC’s second last cell in VobBlanker’s Cell Preview/Cut Mode window confirms the existence of a protracted “blackout” at the end of this cell. As you suspected, runningTitle -> Rebuild Time Map of Current PGC didn’t fix the problem. I have tried both cutting and splitting the cell in VoBlanbker, but to avail – the cell remains intact. This happens from time to time with VobBlanker – perhaps here are certain cells which are immune to such editing ?

Incidentally, I have never seen a total PGC Still Time in the PGC Editor’ s top-left corner – only Playback Time. Does that mean that if no such constraint exists, nothing will appear in the Editor ?
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Old 13 Sep 2011, 12:25 AM   #11
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Not sure why VB cannot cut the cell. Maybe the black section is a still frame with a VOBU still. (VB cannot cut a cell at a position too close to the previous or next cell, and a still with VOBU still time is only one frame long.) If it's the case, you can perhaps use VobEdit to modify the VOBU still time, but I can't help. I have never made that kind of modification, and I don't know well the VOB format.

Another trick: Install the PgcEdit's VOBU plugin and restart PgcEdit. Now, select the PGC, then use Plugins -> VOBU -> PGC entry and end sector. Select the second last VOBU value in the Last VOBU column (at the right side). That operation will tell the player to stop the playback of the PGC when it has reached that VOBU, without physically cutting the VOB cell. You may have to select another VOBU if there is still a long pause (or use Select with Preview to locate where the title finishes really).
Note that playing with the start and/or end VOBUs is theoretically illegal, as the table in the IFO will not match the real content of the VOB cell any more, but usually that works well. However, FixVTS or VobBlanker may restore the original value if you process the domain. So, be sure to do that operation when you have no more edits to do.


The PGC Still Time is the last option in the top left corner in the PGC Editor window. It is usually disabled, and to enable it, you have to select the Random or Shuffle playback mode, because the still time is ignored in sequential mode. Anyway, you should not need to change it, except if it is not 0.
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Old 24 Oct 2011, 12:12 PM   #12
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Hello everybody,

first my apology just registered and I am not able to star a new tread.

PROBLEM - I am using VobBlanker for some time now, just basic - removing annoying bids.

Have problem with my last one DVD. Try 3 times - remove one cell but it is repeatably left not blanked.

Get message my BLANK process without error.
Play back DVD and one cell WAS NOT REMOVE.
Open again VobBalnker and cell was stil there,
Repeat all again BUT NOT luck.
All other cells was blanket on first go but not this one stays (it some text on screen)
I am not much PC wizard so if anybody can help with next step MUCH APPRECIATED.
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Old 24 Oct 2011, 07:17 PM   #13
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Perhaps the same cell is reused in several PGCs of the same VTS. If it's the case, you have to locate the cell in the first PGC where it appears, and blank it there. Note that doing so will remove it from all PGCs where it appears.
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