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Old 13 Apr 2003, 11:17 AM   #1
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Default DVD-RAM "VRO" file utilities?

Anyone know of software, other than Movie Factory 2, that will handle VRO files. I have a Panasonic DMR-HS2 which generates the files, but still haven't found any good tools for editing them and outputting to DVD-R. One problem is the audio is AC-3 encoded, which most editors can't handle. Another is the fact that the all editing information is in a "IFO" file, and the VRO contains just the raw video. I've been using DVD2AVI, to convert the AC-3 to wave, and TMPGEnc to encode to standard MPEG, but it is crude and doesn't utilize the information in the IFO file. Ideas?
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Old 16 Apr 2003, 03:27 PM   #2
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I also have a DMR-HS2. Maybe we can help each other with ideas. I have several questions.

How do you get your VRO files into your computer to manipulate them? Do you have a DVD-RAM drive in your computer? Do you know how VRO files differ from VOB files found on DVDs? Also can you give more details of exactly what you are trying to do?

The HS2 will do basic editing and author DVDs on DVD-R. The editing options are limited and the menus are very plain. I have made such DVDs and then copied the files into my computer. When burning to DVD-R, the HS2 produces IFO and VOB files like all DVDs. These files can be edited with IFOedit and VOBedit freeware programs. I am trying to do this so that I can replace the plain menus with nicer ones. I have also tried converting AC3 to wave and encoding to mpeg with TMPGEnc. When I then create menus with DVDComplete or MYDVD, then combine with the mpeg2 and burn to DVD-R the resulting video is degraded with a stutter/ratcheting effect when panning. My goal is to keep the original VOB files but edit them so that I can combine them with the new menus. I am just begining this project and have a lot to learn.

What I like about the HS2 is that it captures my old analog home videos with supurb audio and video quality.

Roy

Last edited by royrose; 16 Apr 2003 at 03:31 PM
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Old 17 Apr 2003, 01:21 AM   #3
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Roy -

I record my video to DVD-RAM, then feed it to the computer with a DVD-RAM drive. My first step is to use a program called "DVD2AVI" to convert the AC-3 to wave and generate a "script" (probably not the right word for it) for TMPGEnc. In TMPGEnc I enter the name of this script file as the video source and the wave file as the audio source. TMPGEnc then generates the final MPG file. I can then use DVD Complete, etc. to add titles, chapters, etc. before burning to DVD-R. At least as far as I can tell, the video / sound quality of the resulting DVD-R the same as the original DVD-RAM. The flaw in this approach is there is no provisions for editing the video. For example I have not found a way to cut the commercials out of a movie I recorded off-air. I've found several MPEG editors, but none can handle large files very well and just aren't worth the bother.

- Ron
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Old 18 Apr 2003, 12:11 AM   #4
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Ron,

I believe that you can edit the commercials out with the HS2 before moving it to your computer. You can do it by recording a tv show to the hard drive in the HS2, then creating a play list with scenes that don't include the commercials, then duping the play list to a DVD-RAM disk.

Also, you can use the shorten segment feature of the HS2 to cut out commercials.

I know that the HS2 editing functions are limited, so your question about a mpeg2 editor for large files is a good one that I don't have an answer for.

Roy

Last edited by royrose; 18 Apr 2003 at 12:38 AM
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Old 18 Apr 2003, 12:53 AM   #5
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Roy -

Unless I am missing something, the edits on the DMR-HS2 aren't real edits or changes in the VRO file. It appears that they are simply changes in the directory or catalog (IFO) file. For example, if I record a short segment, then make a cut in the center and remove a few minutes, on the DMR-HS2 it plays back correctly. Now if I take that same VRO file, input it to the computer, the section I "cut" is back. I guess the best way to look at it is the way files are handled on the computer. When you delete something, it is simply removed from the directory. The data is still on the HDD until the space is overwritten. Could be wrong, but after spending hours editing my two-hour movie on the DMR-HS2, I input the VRO file to the computer and all of my cuts were gone. What I got back was the original uncut version. My guess is the only way you are going to do this is to find an editor that understands the IFO / VRO directory structure. "Movie Factory 2" does this, but has several problems and is not worth the effort.

- Ron
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Old 18 Apr 2003, 03:32 PM   #6
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Ron,

I can see how it could work that way. It is interesting that the HS2 doesn't have a way to restore the removed segments. The manual implies that the segments are permanently removed, saying that the program segment is "erased irretrievably when you use this procedure". It also says that "the discs available recording time may not increase after erasing short segments", suggesting that removing large segments would increase recording time. Your experience suggests that the HS2 treats DVD-RAM disks as if they are another hard drive.

Anyway, I wonder what happens if you burn a movie edited that way to DVD-R. Would the resulting VOB file contain the entire original movie? I expect to try this some time, so I'll let you know.

I did create a DVD by making three playlists from the same home video that I had captured to the HS2 hard disk. I did that thinking that it would produce a DVD with a menu with a title for each of the three sections. That did indeed work, allowing the viewer to select any of the three from the DVD menu. I examined the files and saw that each of the three sections had its own VOB file. That doesn't totally answer your question since I didn't use the "shorten segment" editor. That is what I will test out next.

Roy

Last edited by royrose; 19 Apr 2003 at 12:08 AM
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Old 18 May 2003, 11:14 PM   #7
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Just seen the thread guys. I too have the HS2 - top piece of kit.

I initally record programmes on the HDD of the HS2 in XP mode. I then edit out the adverts etc and dub to DVD-RAM in FR mode.

In my PC (I have both a Panasonic DVD-RAM/-R drive and a Toshiba DVD-ROM drive that reads RAM disks) I then rename the .VRO file to .MPG. I then use TMPG Encoder to run a simple demultiplex on the file which splits it into .m2v and .ac3 files. I then import into Spruceup and burn to DVD-R with Nero 5.5. Works everytime provided that the recording hasn't been editted since being dubbed to DVD-RAM and there is only one programme (i.e. one recording).

For E20/30/50 users who edit on the DVD-RAM disk I have found it still works, provided there is only one recording, but there will be lip sync problems if any edits have been made before or during the programme. This can be compensated for using VirtualDub - I recommend seeing Nicky's Guide on the subject:

http://nickyguides.digital-digest.com/audio-synch.htm
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Old 19 May 2003, 01:15 AM   #8
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The only version of SpruceUp I could find had the following restriction:

"This full featured trial version is limited to two watermarked exports after which the software must be registered (registration is not possible any more, unfortunately)."

If you have a link to either the demo (without this restriction) or full version, please post it here.
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Old 19 May 2003, 02:09 AM   #9
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To get Spruceup download the demo and then either post a request for a link to the Key Generator or give me an e-mail on rasczak@btinternet.com and I will send it to you. This will remove the watermarks and give you unlimited compiling.

Spruceup is effectively free now as it is solely a Mac thing. You can't pay for it even if you want to. A guide for it's use can be found here:
http://www.doom9.org/index.html?/mpg/spruceup.htm

To load a .m2v files (with it's .ac3 soundtrack) into Spruceup click on the Videos tab, right click and import the .m2v file (the .ac3 will be loaded automatically provided you haven't changed the names of the files (i.e. they are called VR_MOVIE.m2v and VR_MOVIE.ac3).

I should point out you don't have to use Spruceup if following my guide above. Spruceup is only the final authoring programme - you can use any one of the other common ones. I use Spruceup because it's free and it allows me to do what I need, i.e. add still menus, insert chapters etc.
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Old 20 May 2003, 05:19 AM   #10
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Out of curiousity, do you have XP mode set for AC-3 or LPCM audio? Make any difference in this case?
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Old 20 May 2003, 06:39 PM   #11
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I have it set for 'Dolby Digital' (AC3).
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Old 21 May 2003, 04:06 AM   #12
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BTW another advantage of going the route I've described above is that you can import .AC3 tracks into Spruceup whereas AFAIK you can't in Moviestudio 2 without converting. This could be wrong though as I've only used the demo of MS2.
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Old 7 Apr 2004, 12:56 AM   #13
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Hi
Can I join in?
I also have a DMR-HS2 but my pc cant see DVD-R burnt from the DMR. What do I need to over come this?
Any help please.
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