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Old 14 Feb 2013, 04:23 PM   #1
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Default DVDSubEdit : Subpic doesn't fit

When seeking to reintroduce an edited subpic in DVDSubEdit via File-Replace current subpic with BMP file, the following error message appears:
“The modified encoded subpic does not fit in the available space on the DVD!”

The image is 24-bit and is the same size (1 216 KB) as the original subpic. What has gone wrong?
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Old 15 Feb 2013, 12:01 AM   #2
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The problem is that the subpic is compressed to occupy as less space as possible. The compression algorythm is RLE. A very simple subpic (such as a rectangle) is compressed very well and occupies therefore a single block. But if you modify it to add, for example, a lot of buttons, or change the original button to a more complex one, it will compress badly, and will need additional blocks. So, to solve your problem, you should simplify the buttons by removing details, or remove some additional buttons.

The fact that your image is 24-bit doesn't matter much. Anyway, it is converted to a 2-bit (4-color) image when it is imported. However, take in mind that antialiasing in your 24-bit image cannot be properly converted, and it may add random pixels difficult to compress. You can try to convert your image to 4 colors before simplifying and importing it.
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Old 17 Feb 2013, 07:09 PM   #3
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Many thanks for the information.

As regards the subpic size, my editing involved deleting some highlights and reducing the dimensions of others. Nevertheless, as mentioned in my question, the size remained unchanged (1 216 KB). This plus the fact that the unchanged size could no longer fit continues to puzzle me.

I use PS Elements 8 for image editing and the 4-bit colour alternative was greyed out. I tried 16-bit, but DVDSubEdit appears to accept only 24- or 4-bit images.

My original editing used a different font compared with the original (I have not found out how, if it is possible, to identify an existing font). Taking a cue from your reply about avoiding complications, I deleted the original font so that the font type used is now uniform and this fixed the problem.
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Old 17 Feb 2013, 07:22 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VRYK View Post
Nevertheless, as mentioned in my question, the size remained unchanged (1 216 KB). This plus the fact that the unchanged size could no longer fit continues to puzzle me.
The size of the image on disc is NOT relevant. An uncompressed BMP image uses always the same disc space, regardless of the complexity of its content. It's the size of the bitmap converted to 4 colors and compressed in RLE by DVDSubEdit that matters.

BTW, note that DVDSubEdit crops also the bitmap to keep only the part that is visible, before compressing it to RLE. So, if the image contains only some buttons or subtitles in a small area, surrounded by transparent pixels ONLY, it can usually be compressed better than the same buttons or texts in a larger area, as the area that must be kept is smaller. So, you should also try to keep your buttons or texts grouped in the smallest possible area. (Unfortunately, usually, that's not possible.)

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this fixed the problem.

Last edited by r0lZ; 17 Feb 2013 at 07:29 PM
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Old 19 Feb 2013, 01:25 AM   #5
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Thanks for the clarification.

PgcEdit’s Shrink plug-in confirms the presence of indirect SetSTN commands in a video containing 2 audio tracks, one of which is empty, and 3 subtitle tracks. Since the commands apply only to the subtitles, could the empty audio track be removed or would this entail also re-mapping of the remaining enabled streams?
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Old 19 Feb 2013, 03:48 AM   #6
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If you are sure that no indirect SetSTN changes the audio track and you do not remove any subtitle stream, then yes, you can enable the remap option safely.
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Old 21 Feb 2013, 04:08 AM   #7
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Thanks for the confirmation.
I have joined 2 DVD5s, each consisting of a single title, into a DVD9. Is it possible to join the two titles concerned to create a single title ?.
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Old 21 Feb 2013, 11:41 PM   #8
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Theoretically, yes if the e titles have EXACTLY the same parameters (number, order and type of streams, encoding settings, etc...) Anyway, it's not easy. You have to demux the two titles (with PgcDemux), then remux them as one long title (with muxman), and replace one of the original titles with the new long title. You can then remove or blank the other original title. Of course, you have also to modify the nav commands of your DVD, to call the right title, and redirect the commands that call the 2nd title elsewhere. If your DVD has a chapter menu, it's an additional difficulty, as it is usually extreely difficult to merge the two chapter menus. IMO, it's too difficult for the benefit.

A much simpler method is to link the first title to the second one with VM commands. (You have to change the post-commands of the first title to jump to a new VMGM PGC, and from that VMGM PGC, jump to the second title.) You will have a short pause between the two titles, and it is not possible to select a chapter of title 2 when title 1 is playing (and vice-versa), and it is difficult to return to title 1 with the Prev button when Title 2 is playing, but at least, it's relatively easy to do and much more rapid.
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Old 14 Mar 2013, 11:42 PM   #9
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I would like to revert to the problem of subpic size. I wish to create a menu for a video which currently has none. Following the guide at : Backstar Creative Media - Blog, when I do: File > Replace current subpic with .BMP file, DVDSubEdit posts the error: “The bitmap size should match the picture size for this DVD”.
As far as I can gather, size here refers to the number of pixels (rather than the compressed RLE size). Since both the subpic and menu image .bmp canvases are 720x57, I am at a loss.
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Old 15 Mar 2013, 12:00 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VRYK View Post
720x57
You mean 720x576, right?

When you replace the background of the menu with Vobblanker, it's the resolution of the video that matters, not the resolution of the subpic bitmap.

Are you sure the video size is not 704x576? It's a resolution rarely used, but legit. Right-click on your menu PGC and select "Domain track attributes". You should see the resolution of the video. You can also export any frame of the video with the PgcEdit preview, and use it as the basis to create the background and/or subpic.

Perhaps DVDSubEdit accepts to use a 720x576 image even for the 704x576 resolution, but VobBlanker requires certainly exactly the same resolution. (I know that DVDSubEdit saves and accepts full-resolution images, but it has to truncate it a bit when it is imported, for technical reasons.)

Note also that you need PgcEdit v9.3, as it uses blank frames with subpics when you create the new cell. Previously, there was no subpic, and of course it was impossible to replace it with DVDSubEdit.

BTW, I didn't know that guide. Nice finding!

Last edited by r0lZ; 15 Mar 2013 at 12:02 AM
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Old 15 Mar 2013, 07:54 PM   #11
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Many thanks for your reply.

Yes, 720x576 – sorry, the 6 got lopped off!

The menu PGC’s "Domain streams attributes" shows the aspect ratio as 4:3 and NTSC (720x480) rather than PAL (720x576). Can the video’s resolution be changed to PAL or do the menu image and background/highlight subpic have to be changed to 720x480?
VobBlanker didn’t protest when the menu image was created; it was DVDSubEdit when replacing the subpic.

Incidentally, in the guide to which I referred, two subpicture examples are shown with the explanation:
 Here are two examples. The first will change the colour of the buttons, while the second will create a square highlight over that whole section of the menu.
The highlight shapes are different – but that seems to be the only difference. Am I missing something?
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Old 15 Mar 2013, 08:30 PM   #12
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You cannot mix PAL and NTSC in the same DVD, so if your main movie is PAL, you have to create a PAL menu. Same thing for NTSC of course. (Some players can play hybrid PAL/NTSC DVDs, but it's not standard compliant anyway.)

When you create a new cell (or a new menu domain) with PgcEdit, it tries to determine the correct video standard. Of course, if a menu exists already, it doesn't change it.

If there are only dummy PGCs in the original menu (or no menu domain at all), try to export the menu commands (with File -> PGC Commands -> Export PGC Commands), then delete the whole menu domain (with Menu -> Remove Menu), and re-create the same number of PGCs than in the original DVD (with Menu -> New Menu and Domain -> New Dummy PGC), and import the PGC commands back. This time, the video standard should be correct.

If you are sure that your DVD is PAL and that the menu contaiins ONLY PAL video, it might be easier to edit the IFOs with IfoEdit. Open the IFO corresponding to the VTS with your menu, and in the top pane, select VTSI_MAT. In the bottom pane, double-click the line with "Video attributes of VTSM_VOBS", and modify the video standard. Save. That might be sufficient, but if the menu contains NTSC video, that will certainly not work.

Of course, if you have already added a new cell with PgcEdit, you'll have to start over, as it has probably used NTSC, since it's what the domain is supposed to contain.

I've seen the two images of the highlights of the guide. If you want fancy highlights, you should follow the first example. For simple (opaque or translucent) rectangles, you don't need to edit the subpicture present in the cells added by PgcEdit, as they have already a subpic bitmap, and it is sufficient to define the size and position of the rectangle with the menu editor. (The part outside the rectangle will be transparent anyway.) You may have to play with the colour scheme to make the rectangle as opaque or transparent as you wish, and to change its colour.
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Old 20 Mar 2013, 03:43 AM   #13
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Many thanks for our reply.

Unfortunately I am a little lost in respect to the subpic stream:
> you don't need to edit the subpicture present in the cells added by PgcEdit, as they have already a subpic bitmap,<.
I wish to set the menu button’s (“at rest” – colour scheme 0) colour. When I open the VOB in DVDSubEdit the background image (created in VobBlanker) is present, but I don’t find the subpic stream.

>it is sufficient to define the size and position of the rectangle with the menu editor<
I take it that “rectangle” refers to the menu button outline.

I would be grateful if you could clear up a couple of points of uncertainty in the guide previously referred to:
When a new (menu) cell is created, it is not specified whether "Create new program", which is the default, should be retained.

“You only need to edit these colours for a basic menu”.
What is meant by a “basic menu”?

“Each video track (represented by VTST in the PGC menu) should have a corresponding VTSM”.
Why? Navigation can return to the First Play in a VTST’s post-commands.
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Old 20 Mar 2013, 03:57 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VRYK View Post
I wish to set the menu button’s (“at rest” – colour scheme 0) colour.
Don't do that. Colour scheme 0 is used to display the parts of the subpic bitmap that are OUTSIDE the button areas, and it is usually completely transparent. So, you'll not be able to see your highlights. Select any other scheme, and modify it with PgcEdit to suit your needs. It's much more simple.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VRYK View Post
When I open the VOB in DVDSubEdit the background image (created in VobBlanker) is present, but I don’t find the subpic stream.
If the cell has an original subpic stream, it will find it. Otherwise, you cannot use that cell to convert it to a menu.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VRYK View Post
>it is sufficient to define the size and position of the rectangle with the menu editor<
I take it that “rectangle” refers to the menu button outline.
Yes, it's the "hot area" that you can click with the mouse, and in which the highlight of the button is displayed. It's always a rectangle (that you can change with PgcEdit's menu editor).

Quote:
Originally Posted by VRYK View Post
When a new (menu) cell is created, it is not specified whether "Create new program", which is the default, should be retained.
That doesn't matter much. With a new program, you can jump from the previous cell to that cell with the Next Chapter button. Without a program, you can't. For a menu, usually it is better to prohibit that, so I suggest to not add the program.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VRYK View Post
What is meant by a “basic menu”?
I suppose it's a simple menu, perhaps with just rectangular highlights.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VRYK View Post
“Each video track (represented by VTST in the PGC menu) should have a corresponding VTSM”.
Why? Navigation can return to the First Play in a VTST’s post-commands.
You're right, but without the "RootM" PGC in the VTSM, you won't be able to use the Menu button of the remote to return to the main menu.

Last edited by r0lZ; 20 Mar 2013 at 03:59 AM
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