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Old 11 Jul 2011, 10:22 PM   #1
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Default Moving menu buttons

I have hidden two menu buttons in PgcEdit and moved one (# 4) horizontally. To move the associated highlight to within the moved outline, I have checked Ignore transparency and set Goto Subpic to 4 in DVDSubEdit. However, the Subpic horizontal position slide remains fixed. What am I missing?
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Old 12 Jul 2011, 12:15 AM   #2
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Not sure what you mean with Goto Subpic to 4. The subpic number and the button number are two different things.

Anyway, in PgcEdit, you cannot move a subpic highlight. You can only move the rectangle defining the visible area of the highlight. It's like a window through which you can see the button. (It's also the area where you can click with the mouse to activate the button.) If you move the window, you don't move the button. The bitmap defining the highlight image must also be manually edited with DVDSubEdit and a paint program to move it, and of course, the background image. It's a lot of work.

There are many guides explaining how to do add or edit buttons. Moving a button is similar. Search the web...
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Old 13 Jul 2011, 11:10 PM   #3
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< There are many guides explaining how to do add or edit buttons. Moving a button is similar. Search the web...>
My web search has not been successful. I have not found how to move a button highlight in e.g. either DVDRemake or DVDSubEdit (as indicated earlier, I can displace sets of highlights along the Y axis in DVDSubEdit, but the slide for moving along the X axis remains locked).

I understand that the 3 components of a menu – background, button highlights and button rectangles are in different layers. In e.g. Photoshop Elements only the Background layer appears in the Layers palette so I can’t see how the highlight can be moved in this paint programme.
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Old 14 Jul 2011, 02:46 PM   #4
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You can move a subpic bitmap in DVDSE along X only when its width is smaller than the width of the image (720). Same thing along the Y axis, but you can always move the bitmap down (as the bottom part of the bitmap can be hidden below the bottom of the image - most players simply ignore it).

To move a full-resolution subpic bitmap, you have to crop it first. Use "Crop Subpic Background". DVDSE will remove the borders of the bitmaps that are fully transparent, and re-compact it.

That works only if the bitmap has no pixels of another color than the background in its borders, but it's usually OK. But take care. Some subpics that have been re-compacted by DVDSE are displayed incorrectly on some rare players. I have had that problem with a cheap player, and I've tried to help Jean to fix it, but without success. So, crop subpic background only when it's absolutely necessary.

Also, take in mind that moving the subpic will move all buttons highlights at the same time. You cannot move a single button highlight without manually editing the bitmap.
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Old 15 Jul 2011, 05:30 PM   #5
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Many thanks for the info – I take it DVDSE is DVDSubEdit.

I have a video which insists on showing subtitles despite efforts to disable them by default.
Tracing through, there are 3 write breakpoints for SPRM(2):
A direct setting (=64) which I changed to 62.
Two indirect settings (= gprm(10)). Chronologically these follow the direct setting. Originally gprm(10) was set to 64 – I changed this to 0 (this register’s value is set only once).
So the PgcEdit virtual player opens the video with SPRM(2) = 0.

Nevertheless, the VLC media player displays the subtitles by default - overriding the SPRM2 setting. I understand that players might take a subpic value from SPRM(18) (in this case = 0xFFFF = 64x1024) where SPRM(2) is not set (= 62), but am I missing something here ?
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Old 15 Jul 2011, 11:04 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VRYK View Post
A direct setting (=64) which I changed to 62.
Doing so instruct the player to select your preferred subpic itself. And anyway, it's the default value when the DVD is inserted, so IMO it is better to remove that command completely.

Quote:
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So the PgcEdit virtual player opens the video with SPRM(2) = 0.
If you are sure that the title is played with that value, then the non-forced subpics should not be displayed.

So, maybe VLC has a bug. (It has several bugs with subpics, but I don't use it enough to be sure it's a bug in this case.) Test with another player.

Or, there are forced subpics in the subpic stream. Forced subpics are shown anyway, regardless of the on/off state of the subpic track.

To hide the forced subpics, you can select another stream (without forced subpics) and turn it off. If there is no other subpic track, you can create a dummy track with PgcEdit. Open the Main Movie in the PGC Editor, and click on the Subpic Track button #1 (that should be marked with a greyed out "none"). Move the enabled sliders to select a subpic number that is NOT used by the other tracks. (I recommend 31 to show that the subpic is fake.) Accept and go to Domain Tracks Attributes. You will be warned that there is an additional subpic track. Answer Yes. Now, you can edit the new subpic language field if you wish (but, there is no language code for "off" or "no forced"). Accept and Save.

You can also turn off the "forced" flags in the subpic streams with DVDSubEdit. Use the option "Only Show Forced Subpics" to select any forced sub, then change the Start command from Forced start to Normal start. Apply to All, and save.
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Old 19 Jul 2011, 10:37 PM   #7
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Many thanks for your reply. Indeed, the problem was with the VLC Media Player. Windows Media Player plays as expected.

I have another problem with a video which had a large number of subtitle language choices , but ow which only two – English and Spanish – have been retained. Everything is functioning OK except for when Spanish subtitles are selected, no subtitles appear.

Although the PGC setting subtitles has no pre- or cell-commands, the trace log shows commands setting SPRM(2); in the original version of the video:
------> Entering VTSM 1 , LU 1 (en) , 3 (0:01) 30b.
******* Start playback VTSM 1 , LU 1 (en) , 3 (0:01) 30b....
******* Playing Program 1, Cell 1 (0:00.12 + infinite pause) (12 buttons)
-> sprm(8:Highlighted button number) = 8192 (0x2000) = button 8
Selected menu button: 8
-- button : (SetSTN) Set Sub-picture stream = 12, on ; LinkTailPGC
-> sprm(2:Sub-picture stream number) = 76 (0x004C)

In the edited version of the video, the only difference (apart from the number of buttons) is that the command:
-- button : (SetSTN) Set Sub-picture stream = 12, on ; LinkTailPGC
Is missing.

I am puzzled as to the origin of these commands. Also, could the missing STN command be added to the post-commands ?
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Old 20 Jul 2011, 12:38 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VRYK View Post
In the edited version of the video, the only difference (apart from the number of buttons) is that the command:
-- button : (SetSTN) Set Sub-picture stream = 12, on ; LinkTailPGC
Is missing.
Is it the command that is missing, or the button? A button has always a command. It may have been replaced (for example with a NOP) to disable it, but it must have one.

If the button is still present, you can simply replace the original command in the button. Otherwise, you'll have to recreate the button and link it to the other buttons.

It is possible to move the button command to the post-command area by replacing the button command with a single LinkTailPGC, and in the post command, test for the currently highlighted button and if it matches the button, execute the button command there. But it's a more complex method, and I recommend it only in some rare cases.

Last edited by r0lZ; 20 Jul 2011 at 12:41 AM
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Old 24 Jul 2011, 09:50 PM   #9
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Many thanks for your help.

The button was present and by re-introducing the missing command, the video is now working OK.

Another video has 2 subtitle languages English and Spanish which are set indirectly via gprm(3). The buttons are BOVs. The problem is that all subtitle options (English, Spanish or None) give Spanish subtitles.

Initially gprm(3) is set to 63 in both the First Play and Video Manager domains, while SPRM(2) is set directly to 64 in the Main (Menu domain) and Language (Title domain) menus pre-commands. Finally SPRM(2) is set = gprm(3) in the pre-commands of the PGC containing the film.

Selecting for example English subs in the Langiuage menu: playback of the relevant PGC gives:
Start playback VTST 1 , 20 TTN 5 (0:18) 11b. Title 5...
******* Playing Program 1, Cell 1 (0:18.24) (Chapter 1)
-> sprm(7:Chapter number (or PGN)) = 1 (0x0001)
11 BOVs detected.
-> sprm(8:Highlighted button number) = 4096 (0x1000) = button 4
Selected BOV: 4
-- BOV : Set gprm(3) =(mov) 65 ; LinkPGN Program 1, button 8 (8192)
-> gprm(3) = 65 (0x0041)
-> sprm(8:Highlighted button number) = 8192 (0x2000) = button 8

Selecting Spanish subs sets gprm(3) to 64 and None to 63.

What is the difference between BOVs in the Title domain and “ordinary” menu buttons in the menu domain ? Why would the main menu be put in the latter domain and the Language menu in the former domain ?

Since the subtitles can be set correctly via the remote (context menu), I wonder how such selection can be detected in PgcEdit?
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Old 24 Jul 2011, 10:41 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VRYK View Post
Initially gprm(3) is set to 63 in both the First Play and Video Manager domains, while SPRM(2) is set directly to 64 in the Main (Menu domain) and Language (Title domain) menus pre-commands. Finally SPRM(2) is set = gprm(3) in the pre-commands of the PGC containing the film.

[...]

What is the difference between BOVs in the Title domain and “ordinary” menu buttons in the menu domain ? Why would the main menu be put in the latter domain and the Language menu in the former domain ?
BOVs are like menu buttons, but IMO they are more difficult to handle. First, there is no "Language Unit" (LU) concept in the VTST domains, so if you want to do your menus with BOVs in different languages, you have to jump to different PGCs or cells for the different languages.

More importantly, the regular menu buttons have always their highlights stored in the first subpic track, and that track is used anyway when a menu is played, regardless of any previous SetSTN or subtitle change using the remote. When using BOVs, there can be menu buttons highlights almost anywhere, and they can conflict with the subtitles of the movie. So, to be sure that the BOV highlights will be shown, it is necessary to set and enable subpic track 0 when playing the menu with BOVs. As a consequence, the correct stream number must be set again when the user returns to the title. Note also that the "Subpic Stream Change" PUO should be set when the menu with BOVs is played, as otherwise the user can change the subpic and hide the highlights. IMO, although it is possible to author the menus using BOVs, it's unnecessarily complicated. I'm still wondering why some menus are made that way. (IMO, BOVs should be used only in slide shows or special features such as the "Follow the White Rabbit" bonus in The Matrix.)

In your case, it's probably due to that complex method that 64 is forced when the menus are played. They have to do it to display the BOV highlights. The subtitle track used for the title is probably stored in GPRM(3), and that GPRM is used to set the subtitle track when the title is played. So, if you want to fix the problem, you have to find where the subpic track numbers are stored in GPRM(3), and modify that commands.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VRYK View Post
Since the subtitles can be set correctly via the remote (context menu), I wonder how such selection can be detected in PgcEdit?
SPRM(2) holds always the current subpic track number and on/off flag. (Even when a menu is playing, it holds the value that has been set with SetSTN or the remote.) It is possible to test the value of a SPRM, although not directly. For a reason I have never understood, the DVD-Video standard prohibits comparing a SPRM with a constant value directly. So, you have to copy the SPRM to any free GPRM, and compare that GPRM. Here is an example, using GPRM(15) to store temporarily the content of SPRM(2):
Code:
[61 00 00 0F 00 82 00 00]   1  Set gprm(15) =(mov) sprm(2:Sub-picture track number) 
[00 91 00 0F 00 40 00 04]   2  if ( gprm(15) & 0x0040 ) then { Goto line 4 } 
[00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00]   3  NOP ; Subpics are turned off
[00 B1 00 0F 00 40 00 06]   4  if ( gprm(15) != 64 ) then { Goto line 6 } 
[00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00]   5  NOP ; Subpic 0 is on 
[00 B1 00 0F 00 41 00 08]   6  if ( gprm(15) != 65 ) then { Goto line 8 } 
[00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00]   7  NOP ; subpic 1 is on
[00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00]   8  NOP ; continue...
Of course, you have to replace the NOPs with some commands, and if you change the subpic track number, you must jump elsewhere.
(This code is not complete. For example, you may also want to check if the subpics are "not set" (62), or, if there are forced subpics in some streams, you may need to check each stream independently, even when it is OFF.)

Last edited by r0lZ; 24 Jul 2011 at 10:47 PM
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Old 27 Jul 2011, 06:48 PM   #11
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Wonderful post brimming of useful ideas! I love how you have written it properly but distinctively. I have learned a lot from you. Good job and more writings to come!
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Old 29 Jul 2011, 11:25 PM   #12
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Many thanks for your explanation of VOBs. It does seem strange to resort to these rather than ordinary menu buttons given the complications/constraints which this entails (pourquoi faire simple quand on peut faire compliqué?). For the moment I have simply turned the subtitles off.

The pre-command setting the subtitles in the PGC containing the main film also sets the audio track. I assume I should replace the subtitles element by the command block you kindly provided (after setting it to “don’t change” in the Command editor)

Another menu has very small highlights and buttons. I have enlarged the button sizes and would like to enlarge the highlights correspondingly. I seem to remember having done this once, but I don’t remember how.

In another video, all buttons below Extract in the VobBlanker “Cells in Title” window are greyed out. I don’t see anything in the settings which would cause this.
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Old 30 Jul 2011, 12:24 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VRYK View Post
Many thanks for your explanation of VOBs.
You mean BOVs, for sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VRYK View Post
(pourquoi faire simple quand on peut faire compliqué?).
À qui le dites-vous?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by VRYK View Post
For the moment I have simply turned the subtitles off.
Take care. Turning the subtitles off when there are BOVs is dangerous. As explained above, you may hide the button highlights as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VRYK View Post
The pre-command setting the subtitles in the PGC containing the main film also sets the audio track. I assume I should replace the subtitles element by the command block you kindly provided (after setting it to “don’t change” in the Command editor)
It depends of what you want to do. If you just want to associate a specific subtitle track to an audio track, you can just modify the existing SetSTN command. My example is didactical only, and is not necessarily suitable in your case.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VRYK View Post
Another menu has very small highlights and buttons. I have enlarged the button sizes and would like to enlarge the highlights correspondingly. I seem to remember having done this once, but I don’t remember how.
Export the subtitle bitmap(s) with DVDSubEdit, edit it (them) with a paint program, and import it (them) back. (There are 2 and even in some rare cases 3 streams and therefore the same number of bitmaps to edit when the menu is a 16:9 menu. There is only one stream for a 4:3 menu.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by VRYK View Post
In another video, all buttons below Extract in the VobBlanker “Cells in Title” window are greyed out. I don’t see anything in the settings which would cause this.
I can't help. I don't use VobBlanker to extract or import cells. Sorry.

Last edited by r0lZ; 30 Jul 2011 at 12:26 AM
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Old 31 Jul 2011, 06:46 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VRYK
Many thanks for your explanation of VOBs.
You mean BOVs, for sure.
Yes, BOVs were meant – sorry, I got it back-to-front.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VRYK
(pourquoi faire simple quand on peut faire compliqué?).
À qui le dites-vous?!
Un petit dicton ironique en usage adressé à l’éditeur du DVD « BOVisé ».

Sorry about the VovBlanker question - I had been under the impression that you used it.
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Old 31 Jul 2011, 06:55 PM   #15
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I use VobBlanker, yes, but almost only to replace the background images of still menus. I prefer to use PgcEdit with FixVTS to blank PGCs or cells, and DVDShrink to strip streams. So, my knowledge of VobBlanker is somewhat limited.
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