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Old 27 Dec 2011, 10:23 PM   #1
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Default Seamless joint

In a title PGC a cellís (not the first or last one) Seamless Joint box is not ticked and hence is marked in yellow. Whereas the PgcEditor Manual advises to hover over the box for a tip, no tip is appearing. What should I do?
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Old 28 Dec 2011, 12:14 AM   #2
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If the box is yellow, then a tooltip should be shown. Anyway, without info, I can't help. Please use Info -> PGC, and paste the result here (between [ CODE ] tags).
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Old 28 Dec 2011, 09:07 AM   #3
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Many thanks for your reply. Here is what Info -> PGC gives (I don’t see [CODE] tags. ):

VTST 2 , 1 TTN 1 (1:42:51) Title 2 - Chapters: 9, Programs: 9, Cells: 61

********** pre commands:
********** post commands:
1 (CallSS) Call the VMGM PGC 23, resume cell 1
********** cell commands:
1 LinkTailPGC


Playback time: 01:42:51.18 (at 25 fps)
PG Playback mode: sequential
PUOs: 0 (0x00000000)
NextPGCN: 0
PrevPGCN: 0
GoUpPGCN: 0
PGC Still Time: 0
Audio stream 1 status: 0x00008000 (stream=0)
Audio stream 2 status: 0x00008100 (stream=1)
Subpic stream 1 status: 0x80010200 (streams for 4:3=0, wide=1, letterbox=2, pan&scan=0)

BOVs Chap. Prog. Cell Type Seam- Ang VOBU Cell Cell Playback End Entry First Last Last VOB Cell
(PTT) Flags less Still Still Cmd. Time Time VOBU ILVU VOBU VOBU ID ID
Joint Time # sector End Start End

0 1 1 1 3 no - no 0 0 00:13:00.00 00:13:00.00 0 0 386425 386663 1 1
0 2 2 2 9 yes - no 0 0 00:13:00.00 00:26:00.00 386664 0 773200 773436 1 2
0 3 3 3 9 yes - no 0 0 00:13:00.00 00:39:00.00 773437 0 1159945 1160185 1 3
0 4 4 4 9 yes - no 0 0 00:11:41.19 00:50:41.19 1160186 0 1507558 1508036 1 4
0 5 9 yes - no 0 0 00:00:12.24 00:50:54.18 1508037 0 1514237 1514487 1 5
0 6 9 yes - no 0 0 00:00:12.24 00:51:07.17 1514488 0 1520660 1520898 1 6
0 7 1 no - no 0 0 00:00:12.12 00:51:20.04 1520899 0 1526629 1527082 1 7
0 8 9 yes - no 0 0 00:00:12.24 00:51:33.03 1527083 0 1533263 1533496 1 8
0 9 9 yes - no 0 0 00:00:12.24 00:51:46.02 1533497 0 1539687 1539909 1 9
0 10 9 yes - no 0 0 00:00:13.23 00:52:00.00 1539910 0 1546572 1546799 1 10
0 5 5 11 9 yes - no 0 0 00:00:11.13 00:52:11.13 1546800 0 1552027 1552500 1 11
0 12 9 yes - no 0 0 00:00:12.24 00:52:24.12 1552501 0 1558680 1558922 1 12
0 13 9 yes - no 0 0 00:00:12.12 00:52:36.24 1558923 0 1564618 1565093 1 13
0 14 9 yes - no 0 0 00:00:12.24 00:52:49.23 1565094 0 1571287 1571512 1 14
0 15 9 yes - no 0 0 00:00:12.24 00:53:02.22 1571513 0 1577688 1577924 1 15
0 16 9 yes - no 0 0 00:00:12.12 00:53:15.09 1577925 0 1583629 1584103 1 16
0 17 9 yes - no 0 0 00:00:12.24 00:53:28.08 1584104 0 1590283 1590527 1 17
0 18 9 yes - no 0 0 00:00:12.24 00:53:41.07 1590528 0 1596700 1596938 1 18
0 19 9 yes - no 0 0 00:00:12.12 00:53:53.19 1596939 0 1602637 1603112 1 19
0 20 9 yes - no 0 0 00:00:12.24 00:54:06.18 1603113 0 1609292 1609567 1 20
0 21 9 yes - no 0 0 00:00:12.24 00:54:19.17 1609568 0 1615722 1615961 1 21
0 22 9 yes - no 0 0 00:00:12.12 00:54:32.04 1615962 0 1621651 1622118 1 22
0 23 9 yes - no 0 0 00:00:12.24 00:54:45.03 1622119 0 1628298 1628536 1 23
0 24 9 yes - no 0 0 00:00:12.24 00:54:58.02 1628537 0 1634726 1634962 1 24
0 25 9 yes - no 0 0 00:00:12.12 00:55:10.14 1634963 0 1640656 1641132 1 25
0 26 9 yes - no 0 0 00:00:12.24 00:55:23.13 1641133 0 1647312 1647550 1 26
0 27 9 yes - no 0 0 00:00:12.24 00:55:36.12 1647551 0 1653749 1653998 1 27
0 28 9 yes - no 0 0 00:00:12.12 00:55:48.24 1653999 0 1659729 1660183 1 28
0 29 9 yes - no 0 0 00:00:12.24 00:56:01.23 1660184 0 1666378 1666606 1 29
0 30 9 yes - no 0 0 00:00:12.24 00:56:14.22 1666607 0 1672785 1673025 1 30
0 31 9 yes - no 0 0 00:00:12.12 00:56:27.09 1673026 0 1678733 1679212 1 31
0 32 9 yes - no 0 0 00:00:12.24 00:56:40.08 1679213 0 1685414 1685647 1 32
0 33 9 yes - no 0 0 00:00:12.24 00:56:53.07 1685648 0 1691841 1692078 1 33
0 34 9 yes - no 0 0 00:00:12.12 00:57:05.19 1692079 0 1697793 1698268 1 34
0 35 9 yes - no 0 0 00:00:12.24 00:57:18.18 1698269 0 1704457 1704697 1 35
0 36 9 yes - no 0 0 00:00:12.24 00:57:31.17 1704698 0 1710898 1711134 1 36
0 37 9 yes - no 0 0 00:00:12.12 00:57:44.04 1711135 0 1716848 1717328 1 37
0 38 9 yes - no 0 0 00:00:12.24 00:57:57.03 1717329 0 1723506 1723744 1 38
0 39 9 yes - no 0 0 00:00:12.24 00:58:10.02 1723745 0 1729930 1730158 1 39
0 40 9 yes - no 0 0 00:00:12.12 00:58:22.14 1730159 0 1735866 1736349 1 40
0 41 9 yes - no 0 0 00:00:12.24 00:58:35.13 1736350 0 1742527 1742757 1 41
0 42 9 yes - no 0 0 00:00:12.24 00:58:48.12 1742758 0 1748937 1749171 1 42
0 43 9 yes - no 0 0 00:00:12.12 00:59:00.24 1749172 0 1754905 1755355 1 43
0 44 9 yes - no 0 0 00:00:12.24 00:59:13.23 1755356 0 1761533 1761779 1 44
0 45 9 yes - no 0 0 00:00:12.24 00:59:26.22 1761780 0 1768021 1768230 1 45
0 46 9 yes - no 0 0 00:00:12.12 00:59:39.09 1768231 0 1773899 1774374 1 46
0 47 9 yes - no 0 0 00:00:12.24 00:59:52.08 1774375 0 1780563 1780798 1 47
0 48 9 yes - no 0 0 00:00:12.24 01:00:05.07 1780799 0 1786992 1787237 1 48
0 49 9 yes - no 0 0 00:00:12.12 01:00:17.19 1787238 0 1792946 1793422 1 49
0 50 9 yes - no 0 0 00:00:12.24 01:00:30.18 1793423 0 1799635 1799859 1 50
0 51 9 yes - no 0 0 00:00:12.24 01:00:43.17 1799860 0 1806054 1806290 1 51
0 52 9 yes - no 0 0 00:00:12.12 01:00:56.04 1806291 0 1812007 1812486 1 52
0 53 9 yes - no 0 0 00:00:12.24 01:01:09.03 1812487 0 1818684 1818921 1 53
0 54 9 yes - no 0 0 00:00:12.24 01:01:22.02 1818922 0 1825140 1825403 1 54
0 55 9 yes - no 0 0 00:00:12.12 01:01:34.14 1825404 0 1831064 1831537 1 55
0 56 9 yes - no 0 0 00:00:12.24 01:01:47.13 1831538 0 1837730 1837956 1 56
0 57 9 yes - no 0 0 00:03:12.12 01:05:00.00 1837957 0 1933135 1933373 1 57
0 6 6 58 9 yes - no 0 0 00:13:00.00 01:18:00.00 1933374 0 2319840 2320077 1 58
0 7 7 59 9 yes - no 0 0 00:13:00.00 01:31:00.00 2320078 0 2706320 2706536 1 59
0 8 8 60 9 yes - no 0 1 00:11:51.08 01:42:51.08 2706537 0 3058833 3059290 1 60
0 9 9 61 3 no - no 0 0 00:00:00.10 01:42:51.18 3059291 0 3059291 3059296 2 1
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Old 29 Dec 2011, 01:08 AM   #4
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The CODE tags are available in the Advanced mode of the post editor. Click Go Advanced, and use the "#" button to insert the CODE tags. The advantage is that the text formatting is preserved, and it's important to align correctly the columns of text of the cells table. Your post above is not easy to read! Here are the first cells of the PGC, correctly formatted. I have had to reformat them manually!
Code:
 BOVs Chap. Prog. Cell  Type  Seam- Ang VOBU  Cell  Cell  Playback     End          Entry    First    Last     Last     VOB Cell
      (PTT)             Flags less      Still Still Cmd.  Time         Time         VOBU     ILVU     VOBU     VOBU     ID  ID
                              Joint           Time  #                               sector   End      Start    End
 
 0    1     1     1     3     no    -   no    0     0     00:13:00.00  00:13:00.00        0  0         386425   386663  1   1
 0    2     2     2     9     yes   -   no    0     0     00:13:00.00  00:26:00.00   386664  0         773200   773436  1   2
 0    3     3     3     9     yes   -   no    0     0     00:13:00.00  00:39:00.00   773437  0        1159945  1160185  1   3
 0    4     4     4     9     yes   -   no    0     0     00:11:41.19  00:50:41.19  1160186  0        1507558  1508036  1   4
 0                5     9     yes   -   no    0     0     00:00:12.24  00:50:54.18  1508037  0        1514237  1514487  1   5
 0                6     9     yes   -   no    0     0     00:00:12.24  00:51:07.17  1514488  0        1520660  1520898  1   6
 0                7     1     no    -   no    0     0     00:00:12.12  00:51:20.04  1520899  0        1526629  1527082  1   7
 0                8     9     yes   -   no    0     0     00:00:12.24  00:51:33.03  1527083  0        1533263  1533496  1   8
 0                9     9     yes   -   no    0     0     00:00:12.24  00:51:46.02  1533497  0        1539687  1539909  1   9
 0                10    9     yes   -   no    0     0     00:00:13.23  00:52:00.00  1539910  0        1546572  1546799  1  10
 0    5     5     11    9     yes   -   no    0     0     00:00:11.13  00:52:11.13  1546800  0        1552027  1552500  1  11
 0                12    9     yes   -   no    0     0     00:00:12.24  00:52:24.12  1552501  0        1558680  1558922  1  12
 0                13    9     yes   -   no    0     0     00:00:12.12  00:52:36.24  1558923  0        1564618  1565093  1  13
Anyway, Program 7 is not flagged as seamless. I suppose it's the original position of the layer break, as there is no other reason to flag it as non-seamless. If the original DVD is a DVD-9 and your ripper doesn't set automatically the seamless flag at the layer-break position, then it's almost certainly the layer-break, because the cell starts at 00:51:07.17 and the duration of the movie is 01:42:51.18. So, cell 7 is almost exactly at the middle of the movie, a logical position for the layer-break. If you shrink the DVD to burn it on a DVD-5, you can safely tick the box. Otherwise, I recommend to leave it as it is, as good burners like ImgBurn can detect it to propose automatically that cell as the layer-break of your burned DVD.

BTW, the tooltip should show "Should probably be set after a contiguous cell (unless it's the position of the layer-break)". Not sure why you can't see it.
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Old 29 Dec 2011, 09:08 AM   #5
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I no noticed that "Type Flags" is 1 or 3 or 9.
All cells seems to be setted flag =1(angle seamless change), but there seems not to be any multi-angle cells.
Is it legal? Isn't it strange?

Regards.
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Old 29 Dec 2011, 09:20 AM   #6
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Many thanks for your reply and sorry you had to go to the trouble of aligning the columns manually. Unfortunately, I still haven’t been able to find the CODE Tags. After selecting Info -> PGC , I can’t find a Go Advanced button.

Given the desirability of not interfering with a possibly good layer-break, does it matter much if a cell’s Seamless joint property is not set ?

On other occasions the tool tip has worked, with the text which you quote.

I would like to create a new menu button. I believe this is possible in PgcEdit, but I am unclear how. I thought of possibly copying an existing button to start with in the Menu Editor’s Edit menu. However, neither the Y axis coordinate nor the button height parameters could be edited (slides missing). This has also occurred in the past and I wonder why ?
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Old 30 Dec 2011, 12:40 AM   #7
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The Go Advanced button is in this forum, just below the Quick Reply box.

Normally, the seamless joint flag must be clear on the cell that is used for the layer break. However, it is set anyway on some commercial DVDs (notably the "Superbit" DVDs). This technique is knows as "seamless layer break", and is supposed to remove the little pause you are usually experiencing when the player switches to the second layer. It is also normally necessary to change the mux rate just before the layer break, so that the player tries to fill its buffer with as much data as possible just before reaching the layer break. That technique is not standard compliant, and may fail with some players. However, as far as I know, all players support it, although some old players may still pause during the layer change, or, and it's the problem, some frames AFTER the layer change.
ImgBurn has an option to enable the "seamless layer break". That option sets the seamless break flag, but of course, ImgBurn is unable to change the mux rate. Anyway, I burn usually all my DL-DVDs with that option enabled, and I have never had a problem.

Note also that there are other reasons for leaving the seamless flag clear. For example, when a cell has a cell command, the previous cell must have the seamless flag clear. It's also necessary when there are "gaps" between the cells (when the last VOBU of the previous cell is not equal to the first VOBU of the cell + 1).

So, to reply to your question, you should leave it clear when PgcEdit doesn't highlight it in yellow and when you want to burn a DL-DVD and the cell is the layer break. (Unfortunately, when the DVD has been copied to hard disc, there is no way to know for sure if the cell was used for the layer break, so you have to guess it, as I did in my previous post.) However, if you burn a DVD-5, it is better to tick the flag of the layer break cell, as otherwise, the player may pause without reason.


Creating a new menu button with PgcEdit is easy, but it will be simply a coloured (and optionally translucent) rectangle, at the position you specify with the position sliders of the menu editor. If you want a button that looks like the other buttons of the menu, you will have to edit the background, and create a new highlight. This can be archived relatively easily for still menus (with VobBlanker, DVDSubEdit, PgcEdit and a good paint program), but it's much more difficult for animated menus. Anyway, search this site, my home page, and the web. There are many guides explaining how to add a menu button (usually on still menus only).

Not sure why the X and Width sliders are not available. Are you sure you use the latest version of PgcEdit (v9.3)? In previous versions, it was necessary to select the current menu button group (in the upper-right corner of the editor) to be able to edit the X and Width or Y and Height parameters, as they must have different values for each group. With V9.3, you can edit all groups at the same time. Note that there are always at least 2 groups (and sometimes 3 groups) for 16:9 menus, but only one group for 4:3 menus. So, if you use an old version of PgcEdit, you can edit all position parameters without having to change the current group with 4:3 menus only. If you want to edit a 16:9 menu, be sure to edit all groups, one at a time! Or, better, use the latest PgcEdit.

Last edited by r0lZ; 30 Dec 2011 at 01:01 AM
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Old 30 Dec 2011, 12:46 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jinjin_jp View Post
I no noticed that "Type Flags" is 1 or 3 or 9.
All cells seems to be setted flag =1(angle seamless change), but there seems not to be any multi-angle cells.
Is it legal? Isn't it strange?

Regards.
Good finding, jinjin_jp. I have noticed it too. I'm almost sure the seamless angle change flag is not necessary with this DVD, since there are no angles, as you have noticed. However, I have already seen many commercial DVDs with that flag set without reason, so I'm sure it doesn't hurt. BTW, I don't know exactly the meaning of that flag, and as far as I know, nobody knows. Anyway, I guess it is ignored by the players when there are no angles.
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Old 30 Dec 2011, 12:39 PM   #9
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@r0lZ

Thanks for the reply.

I found the DVD which "the seamless angle change flag" =1.

It is music DVD.
As far as I know, the angles of the cinema DVD (Desney, etc) is decided by IFO navigation (for exsample, audio) and can't be changed during replaying by PUOs.
Then I think it is no meaning that "the seamless angle change flag" =1.

But the angles of this music DVD means different direction of camera, and can be changed to the favorit angle even if during replaying.
I think it matches that "the seamless angle change flag" =1.
(I can understand it is setted when there are no angles. Anyway I also think it wouldn't hurt as you say.)

Regards.
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Old 30 Dec 2011, 09:21 PM   #10
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Many thanks for your detailed explanations.

>However, if you burn a DVD-5, it is better to tick the flag of the layer break cell, as otherwise, the player may pause without reason.<
I am a bit confused here; why would there be a layer break cell in a DVD-5?

My problem was with the button Y coordinate and Height. However, your suspicion that I might be using the older version of PgcEdit proved correct. I have now updated to version 9.3 and the problem is solved.

Thank you, jinjin jp for your observations.

Best wishes.
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Old 30 Dec 2011, 10:18 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VRYK View Post
>However, if you burn a DVD-5, it is better to tick the flag of the layer break cell, as otherwise, the player may pause without reason.<
I am a bit confused here; why would there be a layer break cell in a DVD-5?
Of course, there is no real layer break on a DVD-5. I mean you should set the seamless joint flag of the cell that was the position of the original layer break of a DVD-9 when you want to burn it on a DVD-5 (by removing extras, stripping streams, shrinking the menu or the video...). That way, the remnant of the original layer break is gone, and there will be no pause. (Unfortunately, many DVD players pause anyway when the seamless joint flag is clear, even when it's not technically necessary.)
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Old 3 Jan 2012, 07:10 AM   #12
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Thanks for the explanation.
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Old 12 Jan 2012, 08:59 PM   #13
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there is no real layer break on a DVD-5
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