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Old 23 Mar 2002, 08:07 PM   #1
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Unhappy "bad quality" even with 2 cd rip

Hi Everyone, I have a major problem that's been giving me a major headache. I tried searching through the forum for my particular problem, but none of them address them well.

Here is my situation...

I've been trying to encode various movies ("1o things i hate about you," "A Knight's Tale," and "Don't say a word.") using Divx 4.12 and Gordian knight with a 2 cd rip.

Here is my info for Knight's tale..

Video: 592 x 240 using .392 bits/pixel and a compress of 54%.
I don't have the log with me (I trashed it), but my bitrate came out too approximately 1300-1330 for a 2 cd rip.

Audio: using 128k VBR

I also used sharp bicubic with no other filters.

When I played it, I wasn't happy with the quality at all. Overall the movie has really really small blocks. I don't know if these are macroblocks, because they're so small, but it's essentially the same as when you zoom in on a jpg too much. That "pixelated effect."

I just don't know why it's so crappy with 2 cds. On another note, I might add that the movie looks just like the dvd at my original encoding resolution (592x240), but looks like crap (lots of really small blocks) when viewed full screen. When people say that their rips are really good, are they usually good full screen or just at the native ripped resolution. I'm asking this, because my rips might be "good" after all then if other peoples rips are just as bad when viewed full screen.

My goal is to just remove those darn small blocks. I tried using soft and neutral bicubic (as opposed to sharp bicubic), but the tiny pixelation blocks are still there when viewed full screen. They actually look more worse than sharp bicubic in my opinion.

I've been told that "A knight's tale" is a bitch to rip, because it's very uncompressible (i only got 54% using 592 x 240 with a 2 cd rip!!), but I have tried ripping other movies that are slightly better at compressing, but I still get those darn blocks when viewed full screen! My screen res is (1024x768 btw).

I was using Flask .594 before using Gordian, but I've read at a lot of places that flask is not that great and that Gordian is a lot better, so I switched. Now going back to the movies i ripped using flask, they actually look pretty good! The small blocks are somewhat noticable, but the resolution is generally set a lot higher as well. Most of the movies i did with flask are at around 704xxx, so I'm guess that if I reduced the resolution to what Ive been using with Gordian Knight (through compressibility tests), the blocks might be gone althoghther! What are your thoughts on flask vs. Gordian knight?

What am I doing wrong??
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Old 23 Mar 2002, 08:27 PM   #2
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Hmm...that's a pretty hard one to solve. Generally, at a bitrate this high, you shouldn't get into much trouble. Heck! You could actually use a higher resolution like 640x256 and still stand a small chance of getting macroblocks.

Try using bilinear instead. It may blur the picture, but that also makes the picture more easily compressed.

In addition, you could try using the DVD2AVI project -> vFAPI method. This is the method I've been using for quite some time. I recently started using Avisynth as well, but somehow the results look slightly 'not as good' (Nowhere near bad) as the vFAPI method. Could just be my feelings though, but you could give it a try as well.

Lastly, I would still stick with GK+Nandub, rather than Flask. The former wins hands down in the number of encoding options, quality, etc.

p.s. Why don't you share your encoding methods here and we'll have a look if there's anything wrong.
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Old 23 Mar 2002, 08:35 PM   #3
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Quote:
Video: 592 x 240 using .392 bits/pixel and a compress of 54%.
I don't have the log with me (I trashed it), but my bitrate came out too approximately 1300-1330 for a 2 cd rip.
At that bits/pixel value the video should be very close to beeing saturated, at least for '10 I hate about you', which I have done with divx4.12 in GKnot at 704*X and it came out perfect.

your problems probably is that the movie is not displaying at the proper color depth. Try switching to 24 or 32 bit in screen->properties->settings', if you are using 32 try switching down to 24.
The problem might be caused by vdub setting the colordepth flag incorrectly in the avi file when using fast recompress (which is what GKnot does).

If all else fail try loading the avs file created by gknot into vdub and convert that using full processing mode.
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Old 23 Mar 2002, 08:52 PM   #4
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Quote:
The problem might be caused by vdub setting the colordepth flag incorrectly in the avi file when using fast recompress (which is what GKnot does).
Now you got my attention. What do I do to avoid this? I just started using GK as of today and so bear with me. I was thinking of using GK to write an .avs file, but basically only for framerserving and IVTC.
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Old 23 Mar 2002, 08:57 PM   #5
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Quote:
At that bits/pixel value the video should be very close to beeing saturated, at least for '10 I hate about you', which I have done with divx4.12 in GKnot at 704*X and it came out perfect.
Boy, I wish I could get a good rip of "1o things i hate about you." I did many countless hours of tests on this particular movie using different resolutions and different resizing filters.

The best I could come up with was 640x336. Again, it looked perfect at this size, but when i full screened it, the annoying little tiny blocks appeared.

I tried doing the different color depths, but it didn't solve it.

I remeber I had downloaded a 1 cd rip of this movie (704x432) a few months ago. Overall, it was worse than my 2 cd rip. But here's the strange thing.

Although the 1 cd rip I dled had many many really really big macroblocks when there were a lot of motion (as expected with a 1 cd rip), the edges were rather sharp. What I mean by this is that there were far less little annoying tiny blocks found compared to my 2 cd rip. Isn't that weird? Minus the big macroblocks of the 1 cd rip, there were hardly any (there were still some) of the really tiny "pixelation" blocks found.

Does this have anything to do with me resizing the movie to full screen mode?
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Old 23 Mar 2002, 09:04 PM   #6
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Just out of curiousity, have u ripped the DVD using DIVX 3.11alpha Low motion?

What quality/size do you get? No harm in trying or experimenting.



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Old 23 Mar 2002, 09:09 PM   #7
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How do you use low motion with Gordian Knight (nandub + 3.11 alpha).

I don't think there is a setting that let's you choose fast motion and low motion methinks.
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Old 23 Mar 2002, 09:11 PM   #8
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Ok,

in nandub, use the MSMPEG4 v2 codec

Or use other DVD rippers which allow low and fast motion codecs to be chosen.

www.divx-digest.com/software

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Old 23 Mar 2002, 09:18 PM   #9
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Hi techno, I don't know how to use Nandub all that well. I don't think I even know how to do what your asking with nandub. What ripper that's capapble do you recommend (there's so many out there)? Flask?

Thanks,
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Old 23 Mar 2002, 10:02 PM   #10
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Well, I don't rip dvd's but I have a fair Idea. UnCasMS is very knowledgable and so is enchanter.

Use one of these software to rip dvd's (www.divx-digest.com/software):

DIVX Machine
DVD universe MPEG4 packages
EasyDIVX
RipitAll

personally, the second and first seems good.

remember to install the DIVX 3.11alpha codec.

Let me know what happens

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Old 23 Mar 2002, 11:06 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by volkl23

The best I could come up with was 640x336. Again, it looked perfect at this size, but when i full screened it, the annoying little tiny blocks appeared.
OK, so the problem only shows up when you resized to fullscreen durring playback ?, you might try using the bicubic resize Direct show filter, you can find this in the download section at www.doom9.net , but be aware that this is a real hog for cpu power.

Quote:
Originally posted by Enchanter
Now you got my attention. What do I do to avoid this? I just started using GK as of today and so bear with me. I was thinking of using GK to write an .avs file, but basically only for framerserving and IVTC.
There is absolutly nothing wrong with the avi file other than a flag in the header that is not properly set. Most people has no problems with this, a few days ago someone reported a simmilar problem at doom9's forum, he solved it by switching from 24 to 32 bit color.
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Old 23 Mar 2002, 11:09 PM   #12
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No harm in trying different methods, is there?

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Old 23 Mar 2002, 11:29 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by techno
No harm in trying different methods, is there?

Techno
No, in fact I always encurage people to try several different methods before deciding which they like best.

But I also try to find the actual cause of the problem, as opposed to your usual 'blame it on divx4' approach. If in fact volkl23's problems are caused by resizeing durring playback, there is not much chance that divx3.11 or any other codec would solve the problem.
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Old 23 Mar 2002, 11:31 PM   #14
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We shall see about that

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Old 24 Mar 2002, 12:02 AM   #15
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Quote:
There is absolutly nothing wrong with the avi file other than a flag in the header that is not properly set. Most people has no problems with this, a few days ago someone reported a simmilar problem at doom9's forum, he solved it by switching from 24 to 32 bit color.
I'm not sure whether this is a related problem though, but here it goes. I did a 20-min episode using the DVD2AVI -> vFAPI project, and more recently using GK -> .avs file. Both methods used nandub for the final encoding. The same encoding settings were used and the final filesize were close (200KB+ difference, which really is negligible). However, the vFAPI method resulting file looks slightly better, as in clearer and 'less-pixelated' black areas and other small details. I thought this had something to do with the GK settings, but beats me which one. Both methods were using bicubic (vFAPI) and Neutral bicubic (which should be more or less the same with the normal bicubic) respectively. IVTC were performed, with vFAPI using TMPGEnc and GK using its built-in IVTC capability.

Do you have an idea how this can come to be? Both results were excellent anyway, just that the vFAPI-framerserver gave slightly better result.
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