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Old 30 Sep 2005, 12:34 AM   #1
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Default Lots to learn and understand.

Lots to learn and understand. I may be going crazy trying to prevent something that isn't even happening. Let me explain and ask.

I understand that mpeg-2 is a DVD compliant format for home DVD players. Also as I understand it, within this mpeg parameter, programs may not have to re-encode existing mpegs if the things like bit rate and field order and audio formats are the same as the program settings that are set in whatever program you are using.

If I'm pretty accurate so far, then allow me to ask my question. I am using DVD Workshop to author some mpeg files that I have of home video that I conveted from analog using an external converter. After this converter saves the files to my HD, I open Workshop, import the file, right click it, check its properties and check the program preferences to be sure the mpeg settings are ok with what I have.

After I add my menus, chapters and such, I burn the project. This takes quite a bit of time on a 4 gig mpeg file. Based soley on the time it takes, which can be 2 hrs, I am assuming that the mpeg is being re-encoded.

But ..then I say .. wait a minute, the final product doesnt even have an mpeg file in it. it has video ts and audio ts folders with Vob ubd xyz and what ever other files but no mpeg.... hmmm

So my question is... is this resulting time to burn merely because we are changing the compliant mpeg file into these new things or am I also encoding the mpeg over again. I don't even know what the heck I'm talking about ... lol ..any insight would be appreciated.

The puter I use for this is offline and dedicated to video stuff, it is a P4 2.8 HT with a gig of pc3200mem in dual channel. I have two SATA hds internal in a raid mirror array, and a WD external 8meg cache 7200rpm HD that I use for the video files which keeps things seperate from my OS. I include this info so you can see I'm not trying to burn this on a real slow unit or have an adware or spyware problem.

Basically, I'm just trying to understand what is happening behind the scenes when it burns. Also, in DVD Workshop, there is a check box that allows the program to write to disk as well as make the burn. I do select this check box just incase the DVD media itself fails during the burn process. I don't believe that has anything to do with the time factor as I believe the writes to DVD and disk happen together anyway.

thanks in advance for the help,
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Old 30 Sep 2005, 12:58 AM   #2
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First thing I would check would be your DMA.

Check your DMA settings - How ? do this -> Go to Control Panel> System> Hardware Tab> Device Manager> IDE ATA/ATAPI controllers> Right Click Primary IDE channel (and Secondary IDE channel after you finish with Primary)> Properties> Advanced Settings Tab> Transfer Mode or go here: http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php?t=101616

Do the above from both "Primary & Secondary IDE channels".

I (We) and you need to look at whats in both "Transfer Mode" and "Current Transfer Mode". Screen shot below is what I'm talking about.


If it is in "PIO" mode. Click the "Driver" tab, and uninstall the driver. Then reboot. Upon rebooting windows will automatically reinstall the driver and it should go back to "DMA" mode.



(Your screen may or may not look the same as my screen shots)
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Old 30 Sep 2005, 01:53 AM   #3
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Hi, yes DMA is all set ok .. these also are not IDE drives ..thanks ..I'm more concerned and curious about the time for these 4 gig compilations and how to specifically determine if this is far from normal time or not

thanks
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Old 30 Sep 2005, 04:32 AM   #4
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DCP, hmm that's alot of stuff and I'm no expert. But let me take a shot at a couple of your questions.

Some basics; DVD-Video uses mpeg2 format which is a lossy compression format, think of it as the difference between a string of .bmp and .jpg images. The DVD-Video has to be within certain strict guidelines to be considered compliant, these concern the Size of the frames and the speed or fps of the frames, the audio streams, etc. The Video Object Container of a DVD (.VOB) = .MPG, you can rename a .vob to .mpg and it will play in windows media player, but all .MPG files are not .VOB's, in other words you can't take a non-standard .mpg and throw it on a DVD and expect it to work in a dvd-player.

If your existing video is DVD-Video compliant there should be absolutely no need to re-encode it IF it's not too big to fit onto a DVD. Ahh, but there's the rub. DVD Workshop INSISTS on re-encoding whatever you feed it. It uses the MainConcept encoding plugin, which is not the best or the fastest encoder.

So how can you get around it reencoding your source if it's already DVD compliant? Unfortunately I have no idea, and the little bit of searching I did wasn't able to come up with an answer. One thing I can think of if you're primarily using DVD Workshop to create your menus is to trick it. Feed it a small .mpg file, create your menus, let it do it's thing.

Use IfoEdit to Create the IFOs for your real video. Then take the menus and manually put it together with the video, run it thru IfoEdit, mock strip, get VTS sectors and you should be good to go.
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Old 30 Sep 2005, 07:40 AM   #5
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Yes, if all you wanna do is add some menus without re-encoding (assuming your mpegs are OK and, as Taelon says, not all mpegs are VOBs but all VOBs are MPEGs!), you can syphon off the main mpeg (since your editor likes to re-encode by the sounds of it), temporarily replace the VOB with a tiny little VOB (blank it) and after your menus are created replace it.

I would use PgcEdit for this blanking and VobBlanker's replace function to replace.

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Old 30 Sep 2005, 09:03 AM   #6
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I just popped a blood vessel in my brain, so forgive me if my typing is off a little. Its hard to type and stop the bleeding. Wow .. I'm so lost I don't even know what to ask next.

Ok .. I'm going to open up the other program I bought (for just such an occasion) and I know I saw a check box in DVDit Pro that says do not re-encode compliant video.

Shame though, I liked working with DVD Workshop. I fear your suggestions at this point for a work around are way way over my little pea brain. I can't believe DVD Workshop insists on re-encoding.

There is a place in the program under "make disc options" with a pull down menu for Encode Drivers ... but when I click the down arrow, the only one available is called Ulead MPEG Now Encoder. You guys wouldn't know if there is a way to add a third party encoder through this menu so it works without me having to fight a seperate programs learning curve?

thanks
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Old 30 Sep 2005, 05:53 PM   #7
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I was going to suggest posting on the Ulead forums, since they are more likely to fully understand the inner workings of the software. I see ploggy answered your question, hope it helped.

I doubt that the software directly supports 3rd party encoders, however you could probably 'frameserve' thru avisynth and use any encoder you want. I also found some info in the VideoStudio board that may apply to Workshop, worth a look at least:
http://phpbb.ulead.com.tw/EN/viewtop...fa6f230da7f661
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Old 1 Oct 2005, 12:38 AM   #8
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First, thanks much for taking the time to help me understand all these things. I do appreciate it. Yes, I did post there in hopes that someone may be able to shed some more light on this. I just now asked them if the timeframe I was working with on burning was normal.

thanks again

edit ...
I just read the link you provided for me. Very interesting. You know the first thing that comes to mind when I was reading is. There are folks at Ulead who very well know the answers to these questions, you would think Ulead would have them monitor the forums, if for no other reason, but to answer these questions in an effort to make the programs more understandable and therefore rated higher by their users. Frustrating.

Also, ploggys answer implied that workshop only re encoded what had to be done. Now that does get me scratching the old noodle. Can I ask where your understanding of workshop's encoding habits were learned? Thks.

Last edited by DiscCoasterPro; 1 Oct 2005 at 12:48 AM
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Old 1 Oct 2005, 01:58 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DiscCoasterPro
First, thanks much for taking the time to help me understand all these things. I do appreciate it.
No problem, hopefully I didn't make too many factual errors
Quote:
Also, ploggys answer implied that workshop only re encoded what had to be done. Now that does get me scratching the old noodle. Can I ask where your understanding of workshop's encoding habits were learned? Thks.
I did some searching, but it was when I read this post at doom9 that I realized the search was probably in vain. Since a) Arky is a mod at doom9 and those guys are generally extremely knowledgeable and b) nobody replied to him, the assumption being nobody knows of a way to avoid re-encoding compliant sources in DVD Workshop. However, he was working with a trial version, and you may have a later version of the program where the situation may have changed.

Come to think of it, I'll shoot him a PM and see if he ever found a decent workaround.
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Old 1 Oct 2005, 08:49 AM   #10
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Taelon .. take another peek over at the Ulead DVD site. If you are interested, I do believe that George cleared up how the Workshop program delt with compliant videos. So much of these problems are created simply from the cryptic ways the programmers decide to present the options.

thanks again!
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Old 1 Oct 2005, 09:23 AM   #11
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DCP, Thanks for the update, sure sounds like GeorgeW knows what he's talking about. (I can't believe I just wrote that, obviously a different 'dubya'). I guess in a way it makes sense, you don't want to "convert to disk template", since the files are already compliant. The really ODD thing is that they 'grey out' the option if the vts title isn't compliant, which would make you think that you can't select it, when in fact you can't de-select it.

The ulead thread for future reference http://phpbb.ulead.com.tw/EN/viewtopic.php?t=7422 Since it's likely this will come up again in the future and I'm sure I won't remember the specifics
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