Digital Video Forums  

Go Back   Digital Video Forums > Software Forums > DVD Rebuilder

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 9 Apr 2006, 03:23 PM   #1
Banned
 
techreactor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,309
Default DVD-RB free with OPV, HC Enc and you

I did some tests with OPV, since OPV can save upto 2-3 hrs (after deducting CQ prediction time) for a 2 hrs movie. Usually a 2-pass with same settings can take more than 6 hrs to encode.

I used :

GetCQ for CQ prediction value
HCenc in BEST mode
Configured HCenc to use OPV
Kept 2 audio's AC3 + DTS and English Subtitles.
Movie length : 2 hrs 11 min
Time taken for encode: 163 min
HIGH/LOW/AVERAGE Cell Bitrates: 4,753/786/3,249 Kbs

See the results for yourself and Judge:

















EDIT: I got an encoded size of 4.31 GB (thats a major concern for ppl using OPV, since accuracy is always a problem), but the trick is to calculate the sizes properly (audio, mux) when feeding GetCQ.

Last edited by techreactor; 9 Apr 2006 at 11:02 PM
techreactor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9 Apr 2006, 07:28 PM   #2
BR7
He is coming to your little town!
 
BR7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Sioux City,IA
Posts: 2,137
Default

That's impressive thanks for the test.
__________________

My Blu-ray Collection
BR7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9 Apr 2006, 11:23 PM   #3
Just Trying To Help
 
soup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Canada Region 1
Posts: 7,524
Default

@ techreactor When you use HcEnc on it's own & not part of Avi2Dvd do you still do the Identity swap between the exe & gui? I hope I explained that right & you know what I mean. I did it with 0.16 on advice but I haven't done it yet with 0.17.
__________________

soup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9 Apr 2006, 11:30 PM   #4
Banned
 
techreactor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,309
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by soup
@ techreactor When you use HcEnc on it's own & not part of Avi2Dvd do you still do the Identity swap between the exe & gui? I hope I explained that right & you know what I mean. I did it with 0.16 on advice but I haven't done it yet with 0.17.
Hi

I dont use it with avi2DVD, I use it only with DVD-RB and that doesnt require the swap . Only you need to edit the HC.ini to make HCEnc work in CQ (OPV) mode, before you start with DVD-RB.
techreactor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9 Apr 2006, 11:40 PM   #5
Just Trying To Help
 
soup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Canada Region 1
Posts: 7,524
Default

Whew thanks I didn't know if I was explaining that properly. Again thanks for the info.
soup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10 Apr 2006, 01:00 AM   #6
Super Moderator
 
UncasMS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 9,047
Default

do you *compare* an opv result against the original frame from the vobs?

++++++++++++++

comparing the pictures it seems obvious that you compare reduced material against original material

in addition to this inappropriate *comparison* we do not have the identical frame depicted

the encoded material of course looses details / is smoothed and thus we shouldnt talk about a comparison here

Last edited by UncasMS; 10 Apr 2006 at 01:07 AM
UncasMS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10 Apr 2006, 01:21 AM   #7
Banned
 
techreactor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,309
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by UncasMS
do you *compare* an opv result against the original frame from the vobs?
Yes, both the frames are from the VOB's, captured using vdubmob.

Quote:
Originally Posted by UncasMS
comparing the pictures it seems obvious that you compare reduced material against original material

in addition to this inappropriate *comparison* we do not have the identical frame depicted
Its difficult to get to the exact frame since the encoded video frame numbers changes and the screenshot has to be then done only by browsing thru.

I just wanted to show the results using OPV as compared to the original source, *Its not a poll*.

Quote:
Originally Posted by UncasMS
the encoded material of course looses details / is smoothed and thus we shouldnt talk about a comparison here
I forgot to mention, that I used removegrain(), since thats what I prefer, so the results are a bit smoothened, but are as per my taste.

I would like to iterate, that I have just shared my results, have never said which one is better!!!.

Its just for the ppl to know what they can expect using CQ mode of HCenc.
techreactor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10 Apr 2006, 01:38 AM   #8
Super Moderator
 
UncasMS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 9,047
Default

and i simply wanted to point out that comparing A with B shouldnt lead to any kind of conclusion as there is no basis for comparison
UncasMS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10 Apr 2006, 02:46 AM   #9
Banned
 
techreactor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,309
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by UncasMS
and i simply wanted to point out that comparing A with B shouldnt lead to any kind of conclusion as there is no basis for comparison
Eeeexaactly.....its not about comparision but about the conversion process using OPV!!! and what to expect as results

Last edited by techreactor; 10 Apr 2006 at 02:49 AM
techreactor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11 Apr 2006, 09:50 PM   #10
Banned
 
techreactor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,309
Default

Today I tested 1 more movie with OPV(actually the CQ mode) and got impressive results with HIGH/LOW/AVERAGE Cell Bitrates: 3,033/2,069/2,527 Kbs, it took 173 min for a 2hr 46 min movie in Best mode, no filters.

I got an oversize of 31 MB but I managed it by stilling few extras menu's w/o audio.

So the key with CQ mode is to get the right CQ value and keep some buffer for correction.
techreactor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17 Apr 2006, 09:43 PM   #11
Digital Video Enthusiast
Digital Video Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 324
Default

Why are you using an external prediction routine? Does GetCQ give you different CQ values than the DVD-RB internal prediction routines? Also -- 4.31GB is a good size. I don't know how GetCQ works, but I have seen some routines that sacrifice overall quality in an attempt to make the output size more accurate and that concerns me. One good rule of thumb with CQ is that you really don't want to change it between segments because it will cause inconsistencies while viewing... and since you use a single CQ value for an entire VTS, sometimes increasing the CQ value by only one digit (e.g. from 5.9 to 6.0) will result in oversizing. So you may have to live with undersizing somewhere in the 1 - 5% range.

Last edited by jdobbs; 17 Apr 2006 at 09:47 PM
jdobbs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18 Apr 2006, 12:38 AM   #12
Banned
 
techreactor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,309
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdobbs
Why are you using an external prediction routine? Does GetCQ give you different CQ values than the DVD-RB internal prediction routines? Also -- 4.31GB is a good size. I don't know how GetCQ works, but I have seen some routines that sacrifice overall quality in an attempt to make the output size more accurate and that concerns me. One good rule of thumb with CQ is that you really don't want to change it between segments because it will cause inconsistencies while viewing... and since you use a single CQ value for an entire VTS, sometimes increasing the CQ value by only one digit (e.g. from 5.9 to 6.0) will result in oversizing. So you may have to live with undersizing somewhere in the 1 - 5% range.
I dont have the Pro ver, therefore I cannot comment on what value the Pro ver gives in OPV. But you do need to do some tweaking with GetCQ values and look at the ecl's (to feed BR's into GetCQ) before start using its CQ value. The CQ value it gives is in 3 decimals so more accurate. GetCQ uses the pingpong script and therefore picks up samples from different segments.

I dont use GetCQ to encode but only for the value. Also Darksoul(from doom) is already developing a better CQ prediction tool (as he told me) for HCenc. Apart from it I also heard that DIKO has a better prediction routine then most others.

Last edited by techreactor; 18 Apr 2006 at 12:40 AM
techreactor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18 Apr 2006, 01:14 AM   #13
Digital Video Enthusiast
Digital Video Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 324
Default

Hmmm.... I'll have to check on the accuracy. I thought HC only looked at one decimal place, but I'm not positive about that. I round to one place for that reason.
jdobbs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18 Apr 2006, 02:51 AM   #14
Banned
 
techreactor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,309
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdobbs
Hmmm.... I'll have to check on the accuracy. I thought HC only looked at one decimal place, but I'm not positive about that. I round to one place for that reason.
No it doesnt, it looks at all three decimals. GetCQ uses HCenc for its prediction and when it comes closer to the desired size, it only changes the decimal values for its next prediction, till it reaches closest to the desired size and changing decimal values cause no difference in the encoded file size. Sometimes it attains 100% match but sometimes it goes no further than 99.3% precision.

And probably thats the reason why OPV prediction in DVD-RB pro is not as accurate as the rest.
techreactor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18 Apr 2006, 07:40 AM   #15
Digital Video Enthusiast
Digital Video Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 324
Default

I doubt that a CQ factor change measured in hundredths is making much of a difference... I also believe that the only way to get consistent accuracy above 99% is through two passes or the equivalent amount of time in predictive passes. But -- we're all entitled to our opinions.

Last edited by jdobbs; 18 Apr 2006 at 07:44 AM
jdobbs is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off




All times are GMT +10. The time now is 04:52 PM.

Kirsch designed by Andrew & Austin


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 1999 - 2018 Digital Digest

Visit DivXLand   Visit dvdloc8.com