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Old 3 Feb 2007, 12:50 PM   #1
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Default Over size output file

I appologize if this has been covered before, but I have spent the last 2 days researching this problem, and have been unable to reach a definitive answer.
I am using freeware version 0.98.2 to rebuild FlyBoys. The disk was ripped using AnyDVD and CloneDVD, movie only with menus, to a DVD9 file size. After which, I removed some other unwanted material with VobBlanker.
When I shrink with DVDRebuilder using the HC Encoder, I end up with a slightly oversize file of 4.38gb. If I use the Quenc encoder, I end up with a slightly undersize file of 4.26gb.
If I load the HC Encoder file into Recode 2, it shrinks the menus, and is able to leave the movie at 100%.
I had the same problem with Saw3 being oversized,(4.38gb) but did not try the Quenc encoder on it. I have it running now to see if I get the same results.
I do not have either of the options to steal space from extras checked, and I do not have any TargetSector commands written into the ini.
My questions are:
1 Is my problem of oversizing with HC Encoder, do to my preprocessing before using DVDRB, a fault of the encoder (HC 0.19.1), or is it do to the default target size set within the program?
2 If I write in a command for TargetSector in the ini, should I reserve it to HC Encoder? (I assume this would be the thing to do, since Quenc is a bit small and could be increased)
3 Does the Pro version of DVDRB give any additional control over target size?
I have had DVDRB free version on my computer for quite some time, but have just recently began using it more frequently. I do intend to buy the Pro version, but want to use the limited version a bit more first, to become better familiar with it, before stepping up to a more complicated version. I also thought it would be a nice step up coinciding with a commercial encoder, when I can afford one.
I lurked on Doom9 for quite some time before registering, but now find that I must wait 5 days to post or respond.
Any help greatly appreciated.
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Old 3 Feb 2007, 03:49 PM   #2
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Sock,
I thought you were a big AD user, given your comment to me at CDF.
Have you tried ripit4me?

Last edited by jamoskeag3; 3 Feb 2007 at 03:51 PM
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Old 3 Feb 2007, 03:59 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamoskeag3 View Post
Sock,
I thought you were a big AD user, given your comment to me at CDF.
Have you tried ripit4me?
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Old 3 Feb 2007, 04:18 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sockeye View Post
I am using freeware version 0.98.2 to rebuild FlyBoys. The disk was ripped using AnyDVD and CloneDVD, movie only with menus, to a DVD9 file size. After which, I removed some other unwanted material with VobBlanker.
Ripit4me is a better tool to rip and has options like rip only Menus+ Main Movie, nonetheless, your problem is not related to that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sockeye View Post
When I shrink with DVDRebuilder using the HC Encoder, I end up with a slightly oversize file of 4.38gb. If I use the Quenc encoder, I end up with a slightly undersize file of 4.26gb.
DVD-RB does not shrink, it rebuilds the whole movie frame by frame.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sockeye View Post
If I load the HC Encoder file into Recode 2, it shrinks the menus, and is able to leave the movie at 100%.
I had the same problem with Saw3 being oversized,(4.38gb) but did not try the Quenc encoder on it. I have it running now to see if I get the same results.
I do not have either of the options to steal space from extras checked, and I do not have any TargetSector commands written into the ini.
My questions are:
Quote:
Originally Posted by sockeye View Post
1 Is my problem of oversizing with HC Encoder, do to my preprocessing before using DVDRB, a fault of the encoder (HC 0.19.1), or is it do to the default target size set within the program?
Could be one of them, all of them or none of them, sometimes you do get an oversize, once in a while.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sockeye View Post
2 If I write in a command for TargetSector in the ini, should I reserve it to HC Encoder? (I assume this would be the thing to do, since Quenc is a bit small and could be increased)
Yes, use the HCtargetsector parameter to define size for HC only, it salways better. btw, what is the HC quality mode you are using, Normal or BEST.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sockeye View Post
3 Does the Pro version of DVDRB give any additional control over target size?
I have had DVDRB free version on my computer for quite some time, but have just recently began using it more frequently. I do intend to buy the Pro version, but want to use the limited version a bit more first, to become better familiar with it, before stepping up to a more complicated version. I also thought it would be a nice step up coinciding with a commercial encoder, when I can afford one.
No, the pro version has more features but nothing is different in terms of managing the targetsize or quality of the output.
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Old 3 Feb 2007, 06:45 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamoskeag3 View Post
Sock,
I thought you were a big AD user, given your comment to me at CDF.
Have you tried ripit4me?
Yes, I do like AD, and have stated that I used it when ripping this file. I have used DVDRB in the past for larger files ripped with AD, without the oversize problems. Are you implying that my problems stem from the use of AD?
If so please explain why. If not please leave space for someone who wants to help with the problem I have posted with.
Thankyou,
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Old 3 Feb 2007, 07:30 PM   #6
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Quote:
quote=techreactor;503935]Ripit4me is a better tool to rip and has options like rip only Menus+ Main Movie, nonetheless, your problem is not related to that.
Thanks for that. I would like to begin by thanking you for taking the time to reply to my post. I have nothing against RI4M, but didn't use it to rip this movie. I am just trying to figure out why one encoder results in an oversize file, and the other in an undersize. From what you have said, using AnyDVD is not the stem of the problem I am having.


Quote:
DVD-RB does not shrink, it rebuilds the whole movie frame by frame.
Yes, I realize that. Poor choice of words on my part. DVDRB (coupled with and encoder) encodes, Shrink transcodes.


Quote:
Could be one of them, all of them or none of them, sometimes you do get an oversize, once in a while.
I have had good results ripping with AD, and following up DVDRB, with other movies. It has been Saw3 and FlyBoys, that have given me the oversize file problem. Saw3, had the extra protection, but FlyBoys seemes pretty straight forward. So I am at a loss for a reason, and came here for help. I had just upgraded to 0.98.2, and did not know if there were any problems over past versions, be it encoder related, or program.


Quote:
Yes, use the HCtargetsector parameter to define size for HC only, it salways better. btw, what is the HC quality mode you are using, Normal or BEST.
I encoded at Normal. Could that have made a difference in my output size?
I didn't try at any other settings. Do you think setting a definite target size of say, 2265000 would solve this problem?

Quote:
No, the pro version has more features but nothing is different in terms of managing the targetsize or quality of the output.
Thanks for that teachreactor, I like DVDRB, it's cool. I will be upgrading to the pro edition.
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Old 4 Feb 2007, 01:39 AM   #7
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Hmm... I haven't seen an oversize in a long, long time. I'll pick up "Flyboys" and give it a run to see if there is anything odd about that disc.

I would highly recommend that you if you run into any problems -- the first thing you try is to eliminate any third party tools in use. My experience has been that most issues disappear along with the use of those tools. Not that the are bad -- but they are powerful, and with power comes an increased probablilty of potential problems.

Not sure if CloneDVD has an impact -- but it's possible. Using VOBBlanker adds another possible source of issues.

I usually rip to an ISO using DVD Decrypter over AnyDVD. Then I mount the ISO with Daemon Tools and point DVD-RB directly at it. Another option would be to simply copy the contents of the disc to a folder on your hard drive using Explorer (over AnyDVD) -- and then point DVD-RB at that folder.

Last edited by jdobbs; 4 Feb 2007 at 01:42 AM
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Old 4 Feb 2007, 07:04 AM   #8
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Thankyou for the fast reply jdobbs!
That is awsome product support.

Quote:
I usually rip to an ISO using DVD Decrypter over AnyDVD. Then I mount the ISO with Daemon Tools and point DVD-RB directly at it. Another option would be to simply copy the contents of the disc to a folder on your hard drive using Explorer (over AnyDVD) -- and then point DVD-RB at that folder.
I will try this method on FlyBoys as soon as I can, and use this approach in the future, for other titles. (With HC Enc. QuEnc came in slightly undersized, and burnt ok.) I don't want to put you on the spot, but would you have a preference of encoders?
Thanks again,
sockeye

Last edited by sockeye; 4 Feb 2007 at 07:07 AM Reason: another question
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Old 4 Feb 2007, 07:24 AM   #9
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I generally use CCE for my personal backups. My experience is that CCE and HC output with comparable quality -- but CCE does it about twice as fast. On the other hand, I was already an owner of CCE before HC was first developed -- so that may have an influence as well. HC produces such high quality that if you aren't in a hurry, there's really not a compelling reason to use anything else.

I do test all of the encoders regularly -- usually running 3-4 encodes as I sleep each night.
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Old 4 Feb 2007, 09:54 AM   #10
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Thanks for that jdobbs, I appreciate your input. Since time isn't an issue for me, I will concentrate on the HC encoder.
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Old 4 Feb 2007, 09:57 AM   #11
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Just as a question, given the "implied post processing" of Clone DVD, have you ripped using another product? My understanding is that if you use AnyDVD, with some movies, you are now actually required to use CloneDVD to get it ripped.

Do try another prog and see if that works.

I doubt the straight copy with Windows Explorer under AnyDVD will work, given some advanced techniques around lately.

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Old 4 Feb 2007, 10:28 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blutach View Post
Just as a question, given the "implied post processing" of Clone DVD, have you ripped using another product? y understanding is that if you use AnyDVD, with some movies, you are now actually required to use CloneDVD to get it ripped.

Do try another prog and see if that works.

I doubt the straight copy with Windows Explorer under AnyDVD will work, given some advanced techniques around lately.

Regards
Greetings blutach,
No, I haven't used any other ripper other than AnyDVD, although, I am not against trying something else, and will do so.
It is indeed unfortunate that AnyDVD is unable to rip everything without the help of CloneDVD, and I can see where that is disappointing to those that bought it to use exclusivly as a ripper. I have had the SS products for quite some time, and have grown comfortable with them, but I like using other products. (DVDRB in particular. I have a lot of older full screen titles I want to convert to 16X9 for my wide screen) For me it's a hobby, and I enjoy using everything that is available to me, be it freeware or whatever I can afford to purchace.
My approach of using Clone in conjuntion with AD was based entirely on the ease of movie only, preserving the menus, since this option was not available to me with the freeware version of DVDRB that I was using. I will be upgrading shortly.
Thanks to all for replying,
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Old 4 Feb 2007, 11:10 AM   #13
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Quote:
I doubt the straight copy with Windows Explorer under AnyDVD will work, given some advanced techniques around lately.
I have yet to have found one that didn't work, and I do a lot of them (all NTSC, Region 1). Even when I rip with DVD Decrypter over AnyDVD, I have all the DVD Decrypter options turned off. It's simply used as an ISO creator.

AnyDVD is very good IMHO. I consider it one of my better investments.

Last edited by jdobbs; 4 Feb 2007 at 11:15 AM
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Old 4 Feb 2007, 11:43 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdobbs View Post
I have yet to have found one that didn't work, and I do a lot of them (all NTSC, Region 1). Even when I rip with DVD Decrypter over AnyDVD, I have all the DVD Decrypter options turned off. It's simply used as an ISO creator.

AnyDVD is very good IMHO. I consider it one of my better investments.
I should get similar results with AnyDVD in conjunction with CloneCD, writing an iso to hd and mounting with a virtual drive?
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Old 4 Feb 2007, 12:12 PM   #15
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My advice to you is try the disc without any pre-processing first. So just a straight rip to the hard drive and then compress it. Usually most of the oversizing/undersizing comes from pre-processing. But I see jdobbs has already told you this.

You can do it with CloneCD or DVD Decrypter.

EDIT: jdobbs, why make the DVD into an ISO and then mount it? What is so different from ripping it to the hard drive and calling it from there? Thanks.
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