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  • Chewy
    Super Moderator
    • Nov 2003
    • 18971

    #46
    yes, your memory benched best with just the 2 512's

    I never argued that, that's what I expected, the 2 sticks of 256 are hurting
    slightly, now what is their benefit, normal multitasking will never use more
    than 7-800 megs. Disregard virtual, as a matter of fact, it should have been
    set to 1.5 gigs for a minimum for testing. Physical memory available is what you want to watch.

    That chipset is allowing you to run in dual channel with all four and more importantly all four of the cas (spd's) match. After page 8 you'll notice they never test your setup.

    Comment

    • Dr Klovernutz
      Platinum Member
      Platinum Member
      • Jul 2005
      • 198

      #47
      well here is what i am looking at:
      dvdshrink encodes at 2.2mb/sec no matter what ram i use or what else i run
      the only benefit of added ram is i can do other stuff while dvdshrink is running.

      so the question is do i leave in the 2 256MB sticks in.

      i don't know how to decide this,
      with them in i have 1.5G of ram
      everything is still in dual mode.

      your saying they are hurting me (looking at the previously listed memory speed tests, i would have to agree) BUT
      look how close if not the same the numbers between all 3 settings are.
      i have a hard time believeing everest is correct, especially when comparing just the 2 512 to the 2 256 #s

      this is driving me crazy!!!!!
      so i should return the 2 512s i just bought and buy 2 256 instead and leave all four in???

      yet kingston uses my setup as a specific example (2 512 and 2 256)

      AAAARRGGGHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

      Comment

      • Chewy
        Super Moderator
        • Nov 2003
        • 18971

        #48
        Choosing a shrink scenario to measure performance is extremely difficult
        and then isolating the bottleneck equally so. Dual channel is optimal with
        2 sticks matched(same run at factory), I guess it's possible for 4 exactly
        matching sticks to have that same advantage. People say it's the lowest
        common denominator, I believe even then there's a performance hit
        on top of that. It's not the size difference that matters, but the chipsets,
        there's a lot more cas settings than everest shows.

        Comment

        • Dr Klovernutz
          Platinum Member
          Platinum Member
          • Jul 2005
          • 198

          #49
          I just got off the phone with crucial.com

          while on th ephone with them discussing my problem (since they are the ones who told me this would work..) we ran everest.
          look what u see under chipset:
          Field Value
          North Bridge Properties
          North Bridge Intel Springdale i865PE
          Revision / Stepping 02 / A2
          Package Type 932 Pin FC-BGA
          Package Size 3.75 cm x 3.75 cm
          Core Voltage 1.5 V
          In-Order Queue Depth 12

          Memory Controller
          Type Dual Channel (128-bit)
          Active Mode Dual Channel (128-bit)
          PAT Disabled

          Memory Timings
          CAS Latency (CL) 3T
          RAS To CAS Delay (tRCD) 3T
          RAS Precharge (tRP) 3T
          RAS Active Time (tRAS) 8T

          Error Correction
          ECC Not Supported
          ChipKill ECC Not Supported
          RAID Not Supported
          ECC Scrubbing Not Supported

          Memory Slots
          DRAM Slot #1 512 MB (PC3200 DDR SDRAM)

          AGP Controller
          AGP Version 3.00
          AGP Status Enabled
          AGP Device nVIDIA GeForce FX 5200
          AGP Aperture Size 128 MB
          Supported AGP Speeds 1x, 2x, 4x, 8x
          Current AGP Speed 8x
          Fast-Write Supported, Enabled
          Side Band Addressing Supported, Enabled

          Chipset Manufacturer
          Company Name Intel Corporation
          Product Information http://www.intel.com/products/browse/chipsets.htm
          Driver Download http://support.intel.com/support/chipsets/index.htm


          Notice under memory slots
          i currently have only 2 256 RAM in there but its showing it as 1 512 (dual right?)

          well i tried all 3 module configurations
          and whenever i had 2 512s in (with or without the 2 256) under memory slots it always listed the 512s seperately but whenever i had the 256s in it always listed them as 1 memory slot as 512.

          So crucial.com said that this may be problem with these specific sticks. Also, the tech guy i was speaking to just called me back and asked if my existing sticks (256) had only black chips on one side. I said no but in total my current sticks (256) have only 8 black chips on each (4 each side).
          This he said may be the problem. the mobo i have may only accept singlesided ram for dual support.

          so long story short they are sending me 2 new stick of RAM (512) BUT with black chips on one side only, to try all of this again....

          also the tech guy i had at crucial checked with many other tech peopleand all concluded that only the pairs had to match.

          Comment

          • Chewy
            Super Moderator
            • Nov 2003
            • 18971

            #50
            I wouldn't even try that ram in my motherboard, the integrated memory controller is so fast on the amd64/939, my latency is 45.1 nanosec
            I am sure your setup is much more tolerant and compatible.

            that's why I call mine the beast

            Comment

            • Dr Klovernutz
              Platinum Member
              Platinum Member
              • Jul 2005
              • 198

              #51
              Originally Posted by Chewy
              I wouldn't even try that ram in my motherboard, the integrated memory controller is so fast on the amd64/939, my latency is 45.1 nanosec
              I am sure your setup is much more tolerant and compatible.

              that's why I call mine the beast
              are you saying crucial.com RAM is no good?

              i am unclear on what you are saying here

              -DR K

              Comment

              • Chewy
                Super Moderator
                • Nov 2003
                • 18971

                #52
                crucial makes very good ram, I tried to buy the ballistic sets, they are better
                than mine but sell out quick and quite pricey

                your motherboard/chipset/cpu run on regular gas
                mine likes high test, very picky

                Comment

                • Dr Klovernutz
                  Platinum Member
                  Platinum Member
                  • Jul 2005
                  • 198

                  #53
                  do you think my issue is single sided vs double sided??

                  Comment

                  • Chewy
                    Super Moderator
                    • Nov 2003
                    • 18971

                    #54
                    possibly, but if those 256 meg sticks could find another home,
                    it would be a moot issue, like I said 1 gig is enough, more than enough
                    for anything but the fastest computers

                    Comment

                    • anonymez
                      Super Moderator
                      • Mar 2004
                      • 5525

                      #55
                      if it were me, i'd keep the ram in as i do lots of gaming/multitasking. also because my pc runs scheduled dvb captures 24/7, which would really decrease performance without enough ram...

                      so its up to you, klovernutz, which is more important...
                      "What were the things in Gremlins called?" - Karl Pilkington

                      Comment

                      • Dr Klovernutz
                        Platinum Member
                        Platinum Member
                        • Jul 2005
                        • 198

                        #56
                        apparently the 512mb sticks i currently have are not reading properly (refer to the everest chipset memory slot information i posted above)

                        so i'll try to single sided sticks when they arrive, re-run the tests and see from there i guess.

                        Ideally i want to keep all of my RAM. and hopefully this will solve the problem
                        i thinks since i currently have single sided sticks in there already. (at least that is what the tech guy from crucial.com said i was running when i told him there was only 4 black chips on each side of each stick)

                        -dr k

                        Comment

                        • Dr Klovernutz
                          Platinum Member
                          Platinum Member
                          • Jul 2005
                          • 198

                          #57
                          Hi,
                          Im back
                          I just recieved the 2 new single sided 512mb modules. This is totally blowing my mind. Any ne who can help please reveiw the following info and let me know what you think is going on here.To catch all up to speed on what is going on here here is a summary.
                          I own a:

                          Dell 4600
                          mobo is a intel i865PE springdale (but its got that good o'le DELL stink to it)
                          P4 2.6
                          dual channel PC3200 512mb RAM (2 256 modules> elpida single sided (4 chips on each side))


                          The original plan was to increase my RAM so that I could encode DVDs faster with DVDShrink (I have since discovered that DVDShrink's encoding speed seems to be comtroled by the CPUnot the RAM ; I found this out by running DVDShrink with all of the different RAM configurations and found that no matter what 2.2MB/s was the average, while the ability to run other programs while encoding was affected.)

                          ANYHOW, what kind of RAM must i buy, can i add 1 stick or must i add in pairs etc.
                          CONCLUSION, after getting conflicting (and wrong) info from DELL (hate them, errrrr) I searched the 'net and happened upon

                          kingston white papers :

                          Trust Kingston for all of your servers, desktops and laptops memory needs. Kingston DRAM is designed to maximize the performance of a specific computer system. Find memory for your device here.

                          http://www.kingston.com/newtech/MKF_...whitepaper.pdf


                          IT IS UNDERSTOOD THAT THE MODULES MUST MATCH IN CL, MHZ, SPEED, ETC,
                          this seemed to clear up all of my questions. Basically as long as i install RAM in matched pairs, I'll maintain my dual channel. Great, I have 1 matched pair, so i just wanna buy another matched pair. Now some said the new pair must match the existing pair, other said it didn't matter (REGRADING TO SIZE, ie: 256MB, 512MB, or 1024MB) I went to Crucial.com went through all their steps to pick out RAM, did an on-line chat regarding adding a matched pair of 2 512MB to my existing 2 256MB, the also confirmed that It would work fine.

                          I purchased a 1GIG kit for my computer from crucial. They sent 2 double sided 512MB sticks. I added them saw very little performance increase over what i already had. This prompted my to begin performing different tests with different configurations and The results I got are weird. So after posting here i called Crucial, the tech guy learned that my existing modules were single sided and said that perhaps the reason under Everest chipset> memory modules> where its lists the 2 double sided 512 seperatly was that this particular mobo only likes single sided modules. So they sent me a return
                          label and sent me 2 single sided 512mb. Now these show up under Everest chipset> memory modules> as 1 memory slot 1024MB, but they suffer on performance.

                          Can anyone help explain what is happeneing here.
                          why do my 2 256mb perform as good as the 2 512 (if not better in some configs)
                          the best increase is when i have only the 2 512mb double sided in, and all i get is a 30% increase in the write speed for $100.... and I cannot use my 2 256, why not just buy 2 256 is i only get to take advantage of 1gig of RAM?

                          ~Should i buy elpida (are they that good??)

                          ~Must i buy from DELL (i am aware that everything DELL has hs a weird compatibility issue with normal stuff, ie> i must upgrade my nvidia graphics card through dell, not nvidia, also my XP is a DELL XP, etc..)

                          PLEASE HELP if you can I have about 2 weeks to return everything to crucial, or pick-out a different type/ size of RAM.
                          I am wondering if I would be better off returning all of the 512s and just buy 2 256 (single or double)



                          BELOW is as many memory benchmark tests I could think of (of all different configurations)
                          listed are the modules
                          CPU-Z analysis of whether I'm in dual or single
                          EVEREST memory benchmark test results
                          EVEREST>MOTHERBOARD>CHIPSET>MEMORY MODULES>
                          (i listed this because for some reason the 512 double sided always list seperatly while the single sided when in dual slots read combined???)
                          ----------------------------------------
                          MODS: 2 256 single sided

                          cpu-Z
                          memory:dual

                          everest
                          read: 3732 mb/s
                          write: 1200 mb/s
                          latency: 111 ns

                          chipset:
                          memory modules: slot #1 512mb
                          ------------------------------------------

                          MODS: 2 512 single sided

                          cpu-Z
                          memory: dual

                          everest
                          read: 3738 mb/s
                          write: 1117 mb/s
                          latency: 111 ns

                          chipset:
                          memory modules: slot #1 1024mb
                          -----------------------------------------

                          MODS: 2 512 double sided

                          cpu-Z
                          memory: dual

                          everest
                          read: 3815 mb/s
                          write: 1666 mb/s
                          latency: 111 ns

                          chipset:
                          memory modules: slot #1 512mb
                          slot #2 512mb
                          -------------------------------------------

                          MODS: 1 256 single sided

                          cpu-Z
                          memory: single

                          everest
                          read: 2839 mb/s
                          write: 1017 mb/s
                          latency: 120

                          chipset:
                          memory modules: slot #1 256mb
                          --------------------------------------------

                          MODS: 1 512 single sided

                          cpu-Z
                          memory: single

                          everest
                          read: 2843
                          write: 972
                          latency: 120

                          chipset:
                          memory modules: slot #1 512mb
                          --------------------------------------------

                          MODS: 1 512 double sided

                          cpu-Z
                          memory: single

                          everest
                          read: 2850
                          write: 1118
                          latency: 120

                          chipset:
                          memory modules: slot #1 512mb
                          ---------------------------------------------

                          MODS: 2 512 double sided
                          2 256 single sided

                          cpu-Z
                          memory: dual

                          everest
                          read: 3708 mb/s
                          write: 1310 mb/s
                          latency: 112

                          chipset:
                          memory modules: slot #1 512mb
                          slot #2 512mb
                          slot #3 512mb
                          ---------------------------------------------

                          MODS: 2 512 single sided
                          2 256 single sided

                          cpu-Z
                          memory: dual

                          everest
                          read: 3732 mb/s
                          write: 1130 mb/s
                          latency: 111

                          chipset:
                          memory modules: slot #1 1024mb
                          slot #2 512mb
                          -----------------------------------------------

                          MODS: 2 512 single sided
                          2 512 double sided

                          cpu-Z
                          memory: dual

                          everest
                          read: 3729 mb/s
                          write: 1118 mb/s
                          latency: 112

                          chipset:
                          memory modules: slot #1 1024mb
                          slot #2 512mb
                          slot #3 512mb
                          ----------------------------------------------

                          MODS: 2 256 single sided
                          1 512 single sided

                          cpu-Z
                          memory: single

                          everest
                          read: 2789 mb/s
                          write: 923 mb/s
                          latency: 120

                          chipset:
                          memory modules: slot #1 256mb
                          slot #2 512mb
                          slot #3 256mb
                          -----------------------------------------------
                          Last edited by Dr Klovernutz; 20 Dec 2005, 06:50 PM.

                          Comment

                          • Chewy
                            Super Moderator
                            • Nov 2003
                            • 18971

                            #58
                            MODS: 2 512 double sided

                            cpu-Z
                            memory: dual

                            everest
                            read: 3815 mb/s
                            write: 1666 mb/s
                            latency: 111 ns

                            chipset:
                            memory modules: slot #1 512mb
                            slot #2 512mb

                            bottom line: best bench, most of the heaviest duty video geeks around here



                            use a gig
                            and they game

                            Comment

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