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  • Chewy
    Super Moderator
    • Nov 2003
    • 18971

    Why Max Speed?

    After months of testing with 5 burners, a lot of firmwares, and several
    good to excellent medias I have come to some pretty strong conclusions.

    1. 16x media is no better than 8x media
    2. Burning at 8x is better than 16x( I have never seen a 16x burn that
    was as good as an 8x burn)
    3. Burning at 4x is often worse than 8x, especially on 16x media.

    When they pushed the "envelope" with 16x burning they just overspeeded
    quality hardware and media for a marketing gimmick, the problem is
    all burning softwares and authors seemed to buy into the "hype"
    and we have to downspeed these softwares to get good burns.

    BOTTOM LINE: Buy the best burners, latest firmware, best media
    and burn at 8x.


    rebuttal welcome, but have your scans ready
  • jmet
    Super Moderator
    • Nov 2002
    • 8697

    #2
    I have actually started here recently burning most of mine at 8X, but I've been waiting to watch most of them to judge the quality (kinda pushed for time at the moment) before I told anyone. I am not sure I totally trust these scans as, I've had some bad scans but, had no visual playback problems at all!

    Comment

    • cynthia
      Super Moderatress
      • Jan 2004
      • 14278

      #3
      I could agree on burning 16X burning at 2X or 4X - in my case - showed lower points in DVDInfoPro than a 16X burn.

      The funny thing with those scans is that you get better scores if you read the disc at 1X than at a higher rate - 16X.

      Comment

      • blutach
        Not a god of digital video
        • Oct 2004
        • 24627

        #4
        I still use 8x media and burn at 4x. Same theory I guess.

        Regards
        Les

        Essential progs - [PgcEdit] [VobBlanker] [MenuShrink] [IfoEdit] [Muxman] [DVD Remake Pro] [DVD Rebuilder] [BeSweet] [Media Player Classic] [DVDSubEdit] [ImgBurn]

        Media and Burning - [Golden Rules of Burning] [Media quality] [Fix your DMA] [Update your Firmware] [What's my Media ID Code?] [How to test your disc]
        [What's bitsetting?] [Burn dual layer disks safely] [Why not to burn with Ner0] [Interpret Ner0's burn errors] [Got bad playback?] [Burner/Media compatibility]

        Cool Techniques - [2COOL's guides] [Clean your DVD] [Join a flipper] [Split into 2 DVDs] [Save heaps of Mb] [How to mock strip] [Cool Insert Clips]

        Real useful info - [FAQ INDEX] [Compression explained] [Logical Remapping of Enabled Streams] [DVD-Replica] [Fantastic info on DVDs]


        You should only use genuine Verbatim or Taiyo Yuden media. Many thanks to www.pcx.com.au for their supply and great service.

        Explore the sites and the programs - there's a gold mine of information in them

        Don't forget to play the Digital Digest Quiz!!! (Click here)

        Comment

        • Demvang
          Junior Member
          Junior Member
          • Jan 2006
          • 42

          #5
          I burn DVDs at 8x with Benq 1620 or 4x with Toshiba SD-R5112. If I burn at 16x or 12x, the scan is not so good and more time to finish than 8x

          Comment

          • Chewy
            Super Moderator
            • Nov 2003
            • 18971

            #6
            I still use 8x media and burn at 4x. Same theory I guess.
            Blu, I am past the theory point. I went into this with completely different expectations, my earliest scans of 4x dvd-r(TYG01) showed 4x=8x burns, as I went to the TYG02 and TYG03, a pattern emerged.
            The 8x and 16x media wasn't any better than the 4x. 16x burns of the 4x
            media(yes with modded L&D firmware) were about the same as 16x burns of the 8x and 16x media. QS's dropped from 97-99 to low to mid 90's. Then
            slowing down a burn back to 4x on the 16x media gave me some mid 90's.
            I am pretty sure this is due to write strategies in the firmwares.

            Grade B+ media(the ritek R04 16x dvd+r) and B- (Yuden clones 16x dvd+r)
            showed similar results at 8x and 16x, but less consistency(variance from disk
            to disk in the spindle). A few burns at 16x and 4x yielded quite low scores
            depending upon the burner. I kept getting draw back to the center(8x)
            to find the best speed with all burners.

            The addition of Verbatim MCC 004 16x dvd+r and Sony Yuden T02 8x dvd+r
            and my new NEC 3550 put the nails in the coffin for 12x and 16x burning.
            You have to remember I am checking burns from 5 different burners.
            No 2 burners agreed on any best speed except the nec 3520 and 3540,
            but they all gave good results at 8x.

            Cynthia, get the latest version of dvdinfopro, set scan speed to 5x
            for the nec 3540 and compare 8x and 16x burns on some ritek or
            ricoh media. Scanning is mostly detecting write errors, but read errors
            start showing up and skewing scores at 8x with the NEC 3520/40.
            The benq's ability to scan at 8x and not skew QS is a big timesaver.
            I have scanned at least 100 disks in the last few months.

            I am waiting for a benq 1650 to hit the states and if I can find some memorex
            disks at a low enough price I might test them(15$ for 50 with a 20$ rebate).
            I will search for some 8x ritek dvd+r's.

            NEC 3520(3) NEC 3540 NEC 3550 LG 4163 BENQ 1620
            Last edited by Chewy; 7 Jan 2006, 08:49 PM.

            Comment

            • techreactor
              Banned
              • Jul 2005
              • 1309

              #7
              Originally Posted by Chewy
              Blu, I am past the theory point. I went into this with completely different expectations, my earliest scans of 4x dvd-r(TYG01) showed 4x=8x burns, as I went to the TYG02 and TYG03, a pattern emerged.
              The 8x and 16x media wasn't any better than the 4x.
              I also burn my 8x media at 4x speed. Are you trying to say that it doesnt matter since 4x=8x burns, so it doesnt matter if you burn at 4x or 8x the results are the same ???

              Comment

              • Chewy
                Super Moderator
                • Nov 2003
                • 18971

                #8
                Until you can produce good scans that verify it, use 4x burning.
                In MY case most 8x burns are better than 4x,
                the 4x = 8x burns only applied to the TY 4x and 8x media.
                My equiptment and media are optimal. Older computers/burners, crap media,
                and all bets are off. Laptops and external usb burners use 4x or 2x.
                Or as Blu has frequently said get an internal burner and a regular computer.
                There are always exceptions, new laptops and firewire.

                Comment

                • soup
                  Just Trying To Help
                  • Nov 2005
                  • 7524

                  #9
                  Chewy what did you expect going in?What I am getting out of this which by the way is very interesting until you prove different to yourself (meaning me) 4X for standard stuff but still 2X if you are still using cheap media.If this is incorrect please let me know.The equipment you tested on was it all top of the line?

                  Comment

                  • Chewy
                    Super Moderator
                    • Nov 2003
                    • 18971

                    #10
                    Just continue on like you been doing and burn slow with crap media
                    but when you are using the good stuff try at 8x, that LG 4163B 1.05
                    likes good media and burns it best at 8x.

                    My media is as good as I can find, burners are all good, won't spend the money
                    for a premium plextor.

                    Comment

                    • soup
                      Just Trying To Help
                      • Nov 2005
                      • 7524

                      #11
                      Thanks chewy and just to let you know I burnt 2 Verbatims yesterday and have been using Sony but -R not +R.

                      Comment

                      • jeo
                        Digital Video Expert
                        Digital Video Expert
                        • Feb 2004
                        • 745

                        #12
                        LG4081B burn 8x max.i never had any 16x media.
                        i always burn at 2x because my machine is slow(secure in my pc) and using internet,if 4x is choosed,the buffer encrease and decrease all the time(like mad).
                        using 8x to burn seems that you are watching tennis looking the buffer.(too mad)
                        in slow speed i don't lose medias.
                        still sending greens(you can't see but can feel)

                        geriatric rock fan

                        Comment

                        • geno888
                          Digital Video Master
                          Digital Video Master
                          • Dec 2005
                          • 1081

                          #13
                          Hi to all. Sorry if I didn't post fro so many time, but I have problems with internet connection

                          Anyway, maybe I'm not too picky, but I think that 16x media give very good results also @12x. Actually I obtained good results burning a 8x taiyo @12x. See the scan.

                          Regarding firmware, not always latest version is the best. Until now with my benq 1640 I obtained the best results with BSLB (latest firmware is BSOB, i.e. 2 other firmwares released after BSLB)
                          Attached Files
                          Last edited by geno888; 8 Jan 2006, 01:41 AM.

                          Comment

                          • NightTran
                            King of Digital Video
                            King of Digital Video
                            • Aug 2005
                            • 4224

                            #14
                            none of my scan are show jitters, is it good or bad? my media is either mcc 003 or 004 verbatim with nero speed?

                            Thanks
                            sigpic

                            Comment

                            • Chewy
                              Super Moderator
                              • Nov 2003
                              • 18971

                              #15
                              benq's are about the only jitter measurer, not sure how important that is,
                              but I like the new ImgBurn partner, dvdinfopro scanner, it's really gotten
                              it together.

                              Comment

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