Sony VX 2000 or a new Sony HC3?

[wdco]

I have a decision between a new Sony HC3 (or HC1), a JVC GR-X5, or a used Sony VX 2000. My mom is 94 and I want to archive her life history and put it on a DVD. I have a recording studio and am a professional sound designer (williamcoakley.com) and would maybe like to combine music and video. I am a perfectionist… spending many hours at bestbuy, sears etc trying everything I can to determine which to get.
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I like the size and resolution of HD, the GR-X5 is small and delivers, but the VX is (what I think is) a broadcast quality camera tried and proven… but it’s much bigger… not something to throw in a small bag and take off.
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What do you think?

[RFBurns]

Hi.

As I am a Sony certified engineer/tech, and have worked with every line of Sony as well as other makes of equipment, from consumer to professional and broadcast gear, I highly recommend using professional or the broadcast stuff to yeild the highest quality and editability, especially when merging outside audio sources into your video. Since you have an audio production facility, it would be easy to interface pro end video gear to your professional audio gear, which more than likely has time code editing capability and possibly gen-lock capability, which will talk directly to the video gear, thus syncronizing with ease your video and audio segments.

Dont get me wrong tho, some of the consumer stuff can do a good job of editing and assembling video and seperate audio sources but they lack the time code and gen-lock features that are found in pro end gear. It is just a matter of how you want to proceed. If it were my project, and being it is a project of importance and historical merit, I would choose the professional equipment.

Cheers!

[wdco]

Thank you so much

I appreciate taking the time to respond. If I could, I want to clear up something concerning the audio tracks on the VX 2000 and VX 2100.

Are there only two audio tracks?

And, a manufacturer of peripherals for the VX stated that some VX 2000s exhibited audio hiss problems associated with level matching using the manual mode. The claim was that the VX 2100 addressed and resolved those audio issues whatever they were.

Do you have any information on the validity of that?

AGain thanks

[RFBurns]

Hi again!

I am not aware of that particular problem, however I can check the Sony database for that VX 2100 and see if in fact there is a service bulliten regarding audio problems. I will post the info here shortly.

[RFBurns]

Im back.

I searched the service database for the DCRVX-2100 and did not find any service bullitens regarding an audio hissing issue in manual mode. The only thing I found regarding noise was a zoom noise produced by the lens assembly when zooming in and out. Apparently some lens assemblies on this unit did produce a weird buzz type noise when zooming, but the noise is not related to any audio problems.

I would suspect that the audio hissing problem is probably due to lack of input signal, or incorrect microphone type and/or impedance matching, or perhaps something is wrong with the microphone/s being used.

The unit has 2 modes of input audio operation, manual and auto level mode. In all cases and in various model ranges, I have found that the auto level mode would often cause a hiss noise during quiet sound levels. This is caused by the unit's AGC circuits in the audio input chain. It is a circuit that attempts to control the peak audio levels at a pre-determined level point so that no audio level goes byond that pre-determined point, thus preventing over-modulation of the audio levels. The Automatic Gain Control circuits works by reducing the overall audio input signal to prevent distortion and over saturating the audio being recorded. During quiet or very low audio input levels, the AGC circuits kick into high gear and crank up the input level, which in turn also cranks up the noise floor level. Dispite the fact that the camera is a digital camera, the audio is analog in nature until it passes through the AD converter inside the camera. And all analog signals have a certian amount of noise level, produced by the nature of analog circuits and devices. It is like cranking up the volume on an amplifier that has an analog source plugged into it...like a cassette deck or open reel to reel tape deck.

Remember the first round of audio CD's that came out? On every CD jewel case label, printed on the back was a note that usually stated something like this......The music on this compact disc was originally recorded on analog equipment. We have attempted to preserve the sound of the original recording, however due to the compact discs high resolution, the compact disc can reveal limitations of the source tape..........

......all of that simply means that even the highest end, most expensive analog recording equipment and media, does in fact have limitations and can easily produce noises and distortions.

This is also true with the analog audio input of a digital recording device.

Sorry for the long post, but I would suspect the input source as the cause of the hissing. You might try a test recording using different microphones, and use one that gives the best clean sound in the manual audio level mode. If you are going to use wireless mics, make sure the input selection on the camera is set for line level input and not microphone input. It is possible that those who reported audio hissing are using an amplified microphone or wireless mic and the mic's reciever box output level is set way to high, thus oversaturating the input.

Hope any of this helps.

[wdco]

the VX 2000

Thank you for taking the time to check that out. My concern is over the VX 2000. Studio 1 who makes accessories for the VX cameras told me about the problem which seems to be that only some cameras are affected. http://www.studio1productions.com/ And, the problem was fixed in the VX 2100.

There were some suggestions about how to overcome the hiss and you're right... the comments were that there wasn't enough push from a dynamic mic and the average preamp to drive the inputs of the VX 2000. Suggestions centered on setting the manual control at 50% and then cranking up the output level from the mics (through a mixer or powerful preamp) to a healthy level.

In the studio, I will be syncing video to my audio system so it won't be a problem either way. But on location, where I don't have that opportunity... I need to have the audio as good as it can get.

Noise reduction algorithms can get rid of hiss but ONLY if it's at a constant level. With AGC, the level varies making it a difficult target for any algorithm so I'll probably use the manual mode.

Thanks for your time.

[RFBurns]

No problem.

[jdkindle]

Hello Mr. Burns,

If someone knew very little about sound were to use the Sony HDR-HC3 for this project, what sound method would yield the best results in your opinion?

I am in preparation to produce a digital featue film using a pair of cameras; and HC1 and an HC3 and would like to make the sound editing as easy as possible. I have been dealing with so many other issues and have not been able to solicit any credible input regarding sound; if I slack on sound, my work is worthless. Any information you can provide would be extremely helpful to me and I thank you in advance.

-Jeramy

[RFBurns]

Hello Mr. Burns,

If someone knew very little about sound were to use the Sony HDR-HC3 for this project, what sound method would yield the best results in your opinion?

I am in preparation to produce a digital featue film using a pair of cameras; and HC1 and an HC3 and would like to make the sound editing as easy as possible. I have been dealing with so many other issues and have not been able to solicit any credible input regarding sound; if I slack on sound, my work is worthless. Any information you can provide would be extremely helpful to me and I thank you in advance.

-Jeramy

Hello!

Well the best way, not necessarily the easiest way, is to use boom mics plugged into a small mixer. Then route that output of the mixer to both cameras. You might have to have an operator running the sound mixer for you while you shoot the video. It is basically a setup similar to how movies are shot, but those setups usually have a completely seperate audio system that is syncronized with either time code or gen-lock to the film cameras or HD digital cameras. Then later it is all mixed together in the production house.

In your case you can do the same thing but on a smaller scale and use the audio tracks on the cameras themselves for the audio medium instead of a seperate audio recording system. That will make syncronization a snap since the video recorded will also have the audio on the same medium. But with a mixer and good boom mics, you can adjust the sound accordingly and then shoot the scenes. Most sound operators for video or film production will use a set of good headphones that block out most of the outside noise so the operator will hear the sound picked up by the boom mics as clearly as possible so they can adjust accordingly.

You could just plug the boom mics directly into the cameras as well and use the cameras on board sound adjustments.

Wireless mics also provide good sound and less clutter on location, that is if you dont mind lapel mics showing up in your scenes.

A good place to get information regarding this would be...believe it or not...by calling a tv station or video production house in your area and ask the production guys/gals what they use and how they shoot stuff. Not necessarily how they shoot news scenes and reporters, but how they shoot commercials, special programs etc, which more often than not, they use the same techniques as the Hollywood movie guys do.

Happy filming!